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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Pensions you "Paid For"? (Read 1084 times)
BobK71
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #30 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:00am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 2:53pm:
OK, fine, state banks are a bad idea at both the state and federal level, but you didn't really address my question.

My point is that not having a central bank with money creating authority limits what governments can borrow to what private lenders are willing to lend them, and private lenders (especially if not backstopped by government guarantees) tend to pay fairly close attention to who they lend to and how much they lend, at least they used to when they were lending real money...

Yes, private banks sometimes issued more banknotes than they could cover if things turned sour, and when they did, they lost their banks and whatever they had invested in them and their customers lost their deposits. That applied free market incentives to banks so that most of them were careful.


Oh, I agree with you that central banks greatly enhance the collusion between politicians and top financiers to fix financial markets for their immediate benefit.

But the ultimate problem of the world is not central banks per se, but this market fixing.  It can happen with or without central banks.  Central banks make it much easier, probably, but they're ultimately just one of the many tools of the elites.

As I mentioned, politicians can benefit bankers by granting them charters in the first place, by bailing them out in a crisis, and by allowing banks to bail out each other (which is essentially a form of market collusion that would/should be denied to other types of businesses, if you think about it.)  Just before the Fed, financial firms in crisis were routinely bailed out by an almost-official banking cabal headed by Pierpont Morgan.

In return, bankers can benefit politicians by lending money to the government (thus giving the politician free political capital,) and by giving advice.  Such as: since Germany is overtaking us in every way, and we only have 3% of the gold to redeem our printed pounds sterling, and people trust our paper only because of our preeminent position in the world, we absolutely have to make war and defeat Germany, or our assets will implode and we're totally screwed, without question.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #31 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 1:45pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:00am:
Oh, I agree with you that central banks greatly enhance the collusion between politicians and top financiers to fix financial markets for their immediate benefit.

But the ultimate problem of the world is not central banks per se, but this market fixing.  It can happen with or without central banks.  Central banks make it much easier, probably, but they're ultimately just one of the many tools of the elites.

As I mentioned, politicians can benefit bankers by granting them charters in the first place, by bailing them out in a crisis, and by allowing banks to bail out each other (which is essentially a form of market collusion that would/should be denied to other types of businesses, if you think about it.)  Just before the Fed, financial firms in crisis were routinely bailed out by an almost-official banking cabal headed by Pierpont Morgan.

In return, bankers can benefit politicians by lending money to the government (thus giving the politician free political capital,) and by giving advice.  Such as: since Germany is overtaking us in every way, and we only have 3% of the gold to redeem our printed pounds sterling, and people trust our paper only because of our preeminent position in the world, we absolutely have to make war and defeat Germany, or our assets will implode and we're totally screwed, without question.
Why would anyone need a "charter" from the government to open a bank?

What's wrong with banks loaning money to other banks?
  
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kaz
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #32 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 5:20pm
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BobK71 wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:00am:
Oh, I agree with you that central banks greatly enhance the collusion between politicians and top financiers to fix financial markets for their immediate benefit.

But the ultimate problem of the world is not central banks per se, but this market fixing.  It can happen with or without central banks.  Central banks make it much easier, probably, but they're ultimately just one of the many tools of the elites.

As I mentioned, politicians can benefit bankers by granting them charters in the first place, by bailing them out in a crisis, and by allowing banks to bail out each other (which is essentially a form of market collusion that would/should be denied to other types of businesses, if you think about it.)  Just before the Fed, financial firms in crisis were routinely bailed out by an almost-official banking cabal headed by Pierpont Morgan.

In return, bankers can benefit politicians by lending money to the government (thus giving the politician free political capital,) and by giving advice.  Such as: since Germany is overtaking us in every way, and we only have 3% of the gold to redeem our printed pounds sterling, and people trust our paper only because of our preeminent position in the world, we absolutely have to make war and defeat Germany, or our assets will implode and we're totally screwed, without question.


The Fed is the most powerful crime syndicate in the history of man.  They have stolen more money than every other criminal organization in the history of man ... combined ...
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #33 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 6:35pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 5:20pm:
The Fed is the most powerful crime syndicate in the history of man.  They have stolen more money than every other criminal organization in the history of man ... combined ...
They couldn't have done it without the Charter given to them by Congress.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #34 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 10:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 7:22am:
You oppose equality under the law? Tsk tsk. How disappointing. Cry


You need to re-read my post.

Everyone is equal under the law, but no one has a right to the services of others.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #35 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 8:48am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 10:29pm:
You need to re-read my post.

Everyone is equal under the law, but no one has a right to the services of others.


I like how you rightly argued here that the town drunk isn't entitled to positive rights, while in another thread you described him as someone with a genuine belief in NAP.

Think about it, how can you possibly believe in NAP and positive rights?  This is why after enough of your stupid crap, I start calling you stupid
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #36 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:57am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 10:29pm:
You need to re-read my post.

Everyone is equal under the law, but no one has a right to the services of others.
First you said this-

"See, I think selective enforcement should actually be celebrated, because it represents the effect money and power have (and in fact should have) on justice."

Selective enforcement of the laws based on wealth is not equality under the law. You say justice should be for sale, and what, higher quality justice will naturally go to those who can afford it? Cheesy

  
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Jeff
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #37 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:58am
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kaz wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 8:48am:
I like how you rightly argued here that the town drunk isn't entitled to positive rights, while in another thread you described him as someone with a genuine belief in NAP.

Think about it, how can you possibly believe in NAP and positive rights?  This is why after enough of your stupid crap, I start calling you stupid
I bet it broke out in hives when you said that kaz!
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #38 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:10pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 8:48am:
I like how you rightly argued here that the town drunk isn't entitled to positive rights, while in another thread you described him as someone with a genuine belief in NAP.

Think about it, how can you possibly believe in NAP and positive rights?  This is why after enough of your stupid crap, I start calling you stupid


He is the one who led me to believe he believes in the NAP.

If it's so obviously stupid, he can concede that he doesn't believe in the NAP, so I don't get accused of putting words in peoples' mouths.

Jeff wrote on Nov 14th, 2018 at 8:50am:
Fine. I'll stick with what I said, it's moral to not initiate aggression.

Let's change the NAP from a principle to a rule and call it the DIAR- the Don't Initiate Aggression Rule.

Now it should be easy for you, just follow the rule! Smiley


He's basically calling me stupid, for questioning the NAP. Now I'm stupid for claiming he believes in the NAP?

You two need to work that out.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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The Opposition
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Re: Pensions you "Paid For"?
Reply #39 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:57am:
First you said this-

"See, I think selective enforcement should actually be celebrated, because it represents the effect money and power have (and in fact should have) on justice."

Selective enforcement of the laws based on wealth is not equality under the law. You say justice should be for sale, and what, higher quality justice will naturally go to those who can afford it? Cheesy


Yes. The alternative is thinking you have a right to the services of others.

Everyone is equal under the law. Everyone has the same rights under the law.

Having your rights actually protected by the services of others is a valuable service that should only be for those able to pay for it, not itself a right.

If you believe you have a right to the services of others, just say so, and I'll concede.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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