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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions (Read 3961 times)
kaz
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #10 - Jan 4th, 2019 at 5:39pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 4th, 2019 at 11:09am:
It's weird then how I and Burnsy have so many honest discussions, but not you and Burnsy, or you and I.

And it's not like I and Burnsy agree on everything either.


I'll send you a wedding card.  Your conversations with Cleetus are bizarre, but since you chose "honest" I can't refute you
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #11 - Jan 4th, 2019 at 7:52pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 4th, 2019 at 4:03pm:
Did I go beyond "quickly"? Sorry.

Here we go, I'll give it another shot-

Rights can't be given at all, much less "given" to government. The most that can be done is to give government powers. The best that can be done is to give governments few and limited powers.

The power to tax, granted to government, is to be used to provide funding for the tasks that government is set (Edit: 'directed to' is what I mean) to accomplish.

I'd appreciate your immediate reply, which I might read as soon as I see it! Kiss




Ok, so once again you have no answer to the question of where people get the right to empower government to take money from other people?

  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #12 - Jan 4th, 2019 at 9:41pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 4th, 2019 at 7:52pm:
Ok, so once again you have no answer to the question of where people get the right to empower government to take money from other people?


He prefers to win by his usual tactic of throwing dirt.

This, I've found, is shockingly typical of libertarians.

In contrast, here's the most divisive thread on Stormfront, a forum for legit Nazis.

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1267712/

The OP calls females out as weakeners of nations and if you read the thread, the females responding are more respectful, and produce a more intelligent discussion, than we ever get over here.

Here's a response from a female:
Quote:
I am a woman and I have never voted for a liberal in my life, not even once. Most women which I have known were not liberal. Trump would probably not have been voted in if it were not for women.


Shockingly respectful, considering the OP. I invite anyone to look at that thread and see how those trying to divide are singled out and ostracised.

Here, those looking for an honest discussion are singled out and ostracised.

Critical mass of trolls and flamers.

Libertarianism is objectively the best philosophy. However, its adherents, disproportionately, are children who never learned to share.

No, not all libertarians are spoiled, selfish "MINE MINE MINE" two-year-olds. But every one of these adult babies who can't share and doesn't just object to being forced to, became a libertarian.

And it shows.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #13 - Jan 5th, 2019 at 7:34am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 4th, 2019 at 7:52pm:
Ok, so once again you have no answer to the question of where people get the right to empower government to take money from other people?

No, I still have the same answer I've given you repeatedly, it comes from the same theory that says people have the right to form governments.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #14 - Jan 5th, 2019 at 7:37am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 4th, 2019 at 9:41pm:
He prefers to win by his usual tactic of throwing dirt.

Since I'm not interested in discussing Neo-nazi ideas, I'll ask you again for your thoughts on part three (Utopia) of Robert Nozick's excellent book Anarchy, State and Utopia.
  
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kaz
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #15 - Jan 5th, 2019 at 8:56am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 4th, 2019 at 9:41pm:
He prefers to win by his usual tactic of throwing dirt.

This, I've found, is shockingly typical of libertarians.


I see you've never been on a leftist board.  Go there and they'll inform you if you disagree with them on anything that you're a racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, intolerant Nazi
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #16 - Jan 5th, 2019 at 10:10am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 5th, 2019 at 7:34am:
No, I still have the same answer I've given you repeatedly, it comes from the same theory that says people have the right to form governments.


So, since you take it as a given that government = taxation, where does your theory say that people get the right for form governments that tax without consent of the governed/taxed?

  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #17 - Jan 5th, 2019 at 11:53am
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kaz wrote on Jan 5th, 2019 at 8:56am:
I see you've never been on a leftist board.  Go there and they'll inform you if you disagree with them on anything that you're a racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, intolerant Nazi


Link me one. I'm up to that challenge.

I will disagree with them and we'll see if any of them thinks it's moral to shoot me dead.

Last I checked, punching Nazis was moral, not killing them. In other words, even Leftists, the supposedly most childish people in the world, believe that people who disagree with them have some rights.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #18 - Jan 5th, 2019 at 12:47pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 5th, 2019 at 11:53am:
Link me one. I'm up to that challenge.

I will disagree with them and we'll see if any of them thinks it's moral to shoot me dead.

Last I checked, punching Nazis was moral, not killing them. In other words, even Leftists, the supposedly most childish people in the world, believe that people who disagree with them have some rights.


Leftists think that people who disagree with them have some rights?

Smiley

Leftists believe they can commit violence against you if they are insulted by something you said even if what you is not insulting and was not intended to be insulted.  They violently attack free speech.

You live in a fantasy world, cherub.  What the hell are you talking about?

And that you know a couple people who claim to be libertarians and they don't think you have rights is a generalization fallacy even if they were libertarians.  Enos has some libertarian views, but he's mostly just a drunk who keeps falling off his porch.  Cleetus isn't a libertarian at all.  He believes the government can do anything the left does as long as they tie it to a use tax.

Your argument is just a fail
  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #19 - Jan 5th, 2019 at 5:02pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 5th, 2019 at 12:47pm:
Leftists think that people who disagree with them have some rights?

Smiley

Leftists believe they can commit violence against you if they are insulted by something you said even if what you is not insulting and was not intended to be insulted.  They violently attack free speech.


And yet, it's punch a Nazi, not gun down a Nazi.

Yes, they think they have the right to commit violence. I have no evidence that they think they have the right to do any more than beat people senseless.

kaz wrote on Jan 5th, 2019 at 12:47pm:
And that you know a couple people who claim to be libertarians and they don't think you have rights is a generalization fallacy even if they were libertarians.  Enos has some libertarian views, but he's mostly just a drunk who keeps falling off his porch.  Cleetus isn't a libertarian at all.  He believes the government can do anything the left does as long as they tie it to a use tax.

Your argument is just a fail


Generalisation is only a fallacy if you actually generalise.

If I were to say that because some libertarians think I don't have rights, all of them must believe that, that would obviously be wrong.

But what I have said is that a significant number of libertarians believe I don't have rights, and since I can't find any Nazis or even Leftists who think they can gun down innocents, I would be better off supporting statism in mere self-defence.

I won't, but that doesn't change the fact that I am objectively better off with laws that protect my rights, even if the laws are shams and I don't really have any rights.

My deeper point is that you need to fix your philosophy. Jeff and Merklestan were able to find good libertarian justifications for defining someone out of rights.

You once said that Southerners lost the right to wave the Confederate flag with pride because they saw that it was being used as an instrument of racism and said nothing.

Your philosophy is more often used as an instrument of tyranny than legit Nazism.

That ought to concern you.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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