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Little Big Man
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #400 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 10:15am
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Little Big Man wrote yesterday at 11:51am:
Quote:
Is the right to empower a government to tax an absolute right?


Jeff wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 3:09pm:
As you should know, I don't believe any rights are absolute.


Then under what circumstances do people not have the right to empower a government to tax?


  

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kaz
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #401 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 10:47am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 10:15am:
Little Big Man wrote yesterday at 11:51am:



Then under what circumstances do people not have the right to empower a government to tax?




The obvious one is redistribution of wealth.  There is no Constitutional authority for the Federal government to do that.

Beyond that, you need to read the founding fathers and other classic liberals like Adam Smith and John Locke and learn a little about the basis your country was founded on.

Sad that never comes up as mattering on a libertarian message board other than from me.  At that point, we could have a meaningful discussion once you understand the basic concepts
  

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Jeff
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #402 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 12:28pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 10:47am:
Beyond that, you need to read the founding fathers and other classic liberals like Adam Smith and John Locke and learn a little about the basis your country was founded on.

Sad that never comes up as mattering on a libertarian message board other than from me. 
I've mentioned it, but it bears repeating., thanks.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #403 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 6:29pm
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Little Big Man wrote yesterday at 11:51am:
Quote:
Then under what circumstances do people not have the right to empower a government to tax?


kaz wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 10:47am:
The obvious one is redistribution of wealth.  There is no Constitutional authority for the Federal government to do that.


I'm not talking about just our constitutional form of government.  I believe that rights are natural, not given by the constitution.  If there is an absolute or non-absolute right to form governments that can tax, that right must exist before the constitution did.

But if you insist that rights only come from the constitution, then I'll ask two questions:

Under our existing constitution, do the people have the right to empower state and local governments to redistribute wealth?

Do the people have the right to amend the constitution to allow the federal government to redistribute wealth?


Quote:
Beyond that, you need to read the founding fathers and other classic liberals like Adam Smith and John Locke and learn a little about the basis your country was founded on.

Sad that never comes up as mattering on a libertarian message board other than from me.  At that point, we could have a meaningful discussion once you understand the basic concepts


That's because classical liberalism was a historic step in the direction of libertarianism, but it was never and can never be libertarianism.


  

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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #404 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 7:28pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 6:29pm:
I'm not talking about just our constitutional form of government.  I believe that rights are natural, not given by the constitution.  If there is an absolute or non-absolute right to form governments that can tax, that right must exist before the constitution did.
There is a right. It is not absolute as kaz mentioned, and yes, it existed and exists.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #405 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 7:29pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 6:29pm:
Under our existing constitution, do the people have the right to empower state and local governments to redistribute wealth?
No. Re-distribution of wealth is a violation of rights.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #406 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 7:30pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 6:29pm:
Do the people have the right to amend the constitution to allow the federal government to redistribute wealth?
Yes. It will never happen without chicanery.
  
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #407 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 7:33pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 6:29pm:
That's because classical liberalism was a historic step in the direction of libertarianism, but it was never and can never be libertarianism.
Who cares? Both philosophies of political economics call for limited government that will protect rights and lives and property and maximize individual liberty.. The label is not important.
  
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #408 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:11am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 6:29pm:
Little Big Man wrote yesterday at 11:51am:


I'm not talking about just our constitutional form of government.  I believe that rights are natural, not given by the constitution.  If there is an absolute or non-absolute right to form governments that can tax, that right must exist before the constitution did.

But if you insist that rights only come from the constitution, then I'll ask two questions:

Under our existing constitution, do the people have the right to empower state and local governments to redistribute wealth?

Do the people have the right to amend the constitution to allow the federal government to redistribute wealth?



That's because classical liberalism was a historic step in the direction of libertarianism, but it was never and can never be libertarianism.




Dude, you argued that all land and natural resources belong to the people and we can only rent them from government.  Before that you argued that if you step off your land, government can tax everything they do now and more and just call it a use tax.  Later you argued that government should have a massive bureaucracy to determine who paid their taxes and gets government services.  So if there's a riot, you propose the police first sort everyone by tax and non tax payers.  My favorite was your view that gangsters and mobsters should be able to declare themselves police.  Now you're against all taxes (sic).  For you to lecture anyone about taxes is laughable.

There is no perfect tax based on pure natural law.  But you can only tax land or labor.  And our government wasn't the death pact that you claim to dream for.  So they decided the least objectionable taxes were indirect taxes.

You solve the problem.  Pretend you're not pretending to want to hold hands with the Chief and die in a hail of bullets from gangsters now or Marxists later
  

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kaz
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Re: The Thread for Jeff to Answer Questions
Reply #409 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 5:05pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 6:29pm:
But if you insist that rights only come from the constitution, then I'll ask two questions


Trollin, trollin trollin ... trollin trollin trollin ... along ...
  

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