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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The poor are poor because of their own choices (Read 843 times)
Jeff
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #20 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:38am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 6th, 2019 at 10:30am:
You think the states will do better without supervision?
I think schools will be much better if they are under local control. I can't imagine why people think state bureaucrats can design "good" schools and "good" programs of education any better than can federal bureaucrats.

The parents and teachers and administrators of a local school are much better positioned to know what the children in their school need and what they want to provide for them.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #21 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:46am
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kaz wrote on Jan 6th, 2019 at 11:28am:
You are right of course that government has a lot to do with it.  They encourage dependency.  But there is nothing that prevents the poor from working their way out of poverty.   There are a lot of things that makes it "extremely difficult" to get out of poverty.  The government is only one.  However, nothing stops them. 

On an individual level, many children are prevented from working their way out of poverty. Also on an individual level, some children are able to start making good decisions for themselves at an early age, but if they haven't decided in grade school that learning is going to be critical, and they enter high school unable to read or write or do basic math, it starts to become impossible for them to work their way out of poverty. I guess you can blame them for not having enough foresight and fortitude when they were 12 to go against what is sometimes a tide of peer pressure and negligence and the wrong precepts they are being taught, not only in school, but by "leaders" in their community.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #22 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 11:32am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:38am:
I think schools will be much better if they are under local control. I can't imagine why people think state bureaucrats can design "good" schools and "good" programs of education any better than can federal bureaucrats.

The parents and teachers and administrators of a local school are much better positioned to know what the children in their school need and what they want to provide for them.


So how do you propose to prevent local controllers from taxing black parents to build mediocre schools for white kids while forcing black to attend substandard schools?

Should I just move this one over your unanswered questions thread right away? 

Nah.  I'll give you a chance . . .

  

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Jeff
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #23 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 2:35pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 11:32am:
So how do you propose to prevent local controllers from taxing black parents to build mediocre schools for white kids while forcing black to attend substandard schools?

Should I just move this one over your unanswered questions thread right away? 

Nah.  I'll give you a chance . . .

Good schools aren't dependent on the amount of money spent on them...

I suppose something like what you propose could happen, but if they levy a tax based on race, they will be in violation of the 14th Amendment and somebody will get a restraining order right away, and if they start intentionally segregating the schools by race, the same thing will happen.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #24 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 3:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 2:35pm:
Good schools aren't dependent on the amount of money spent on them...

I suppose something like what you propose could happen, but if they levy a tax based on race, they will be in violation of the 14th Amendment and somebody will get a restraining order right away, and if they start intentionally segregating the schools by race, the same thing will happen.


Exactly, but that isn't local control.


  

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Jeff
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #25 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 4:52pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 3:35pm:
Exactly, but that isn't local control.


What isn't local control? Prohibiting local governments from passing race based discriminatory laws?

Hopefully local people will prevent their governments from doing that, but if they don't, the federal government must.

The local control I'm talking about is control of the curriculum and control of the teachers.

Parent's are best situated to decide what they want taught to their children and how they think it should be taught. Educational professionals disagree, but they can't argue that they have more right to decide what and how children should be taught than do parents. They don't.

From a practical perspective, schools were much cheaper and produced far better results when parents were the primary controllers of the process.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #26 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:51pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 4:52pm:
What isn't local control? Prohibiting local governments from passing race based discriminatory laws?

Hopefully local people will prevent their governments from doing that, but if they don't, the federal government must.


Then that isn't local control.

Quote:
The local control I'm talking about is control of the curriculum and control of the teachers.


So long as they are forced at federal gunpoint to admit all students equally? 

Quote:
Parent's are best situated to decide what they want taught to their children and how they think it should be taught. Educational professionals disagree, but they can't argue that they have more right to decide what and how children should be taught than do parents. They don't.

From a practical perspective, schools were much cheaper and produced far better results when parents were the primary controllers of the process.


Correct, that was when parents controlled the process by paying for private school for their own kids or voluntarily pooled their money to build a school house and hire a teacher.

The minute - the very minute - "local people" decide to empower government to use force to fund the school, they have ceded control to the taxers.

Your idea that we can empower government to extort money from us and then control that extortion racket has been proven false over and over.

And over.

Every.  Single.  Time.

Always.


  

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Jeff
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #27 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:20pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:51pm:
Then that isn't local control.
If local control acts in violation of rights by enacting laws that treat people unequally, the federal government is obligated to prevent it.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #28 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:22pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:51pm:
So long as they are forced at federal gunpoint to admit all students equally? 



No, so long as they don't pass laws that treat students differently.

How you say it is important.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The poor are poor because of their own choices
Reply #29 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:34pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 6:23am:
Respond to your attacks, and suddenly attacks are childish.   Yet again, you're a fundamentally dishonest piece of shit


You always start it. You probably date females who are less than 10's so you can emotionally abuse them.

You expect people to fold and apologise when you get angry. You fling shit at others and then complain when they fight back.

What could have taught you that this works? Hmm. Maybe the people it actually works on.

I imagine you're used to this working, or you wouldn't do it, and there's only one group of people even remotely susceptible to it: Imperfect females.

You owned five businesses. You can get 10s, but you prefer not, don't you?

Is she carrying a little extra weight? Or perhaps she's a butterface. You convince her it doesn't matter so you can use her to get your dominance rocks off. Start a fight, convince her she started it, make her apologise.

I know your type.

You can scream and shout all you want, but everyone can see it when someone so clearly pins the tail on the donkey as I've just done.

The only way to convince people you don't do it... is to stop doing it.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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