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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool! (Read 1582 times)
Little Big Man
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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #30 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 3:17pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 2:03pm:
Teachers protected by unions are a problem. They are difficult to get rid of.


Yeah, I used to think that also.  It's a very common complaint on conservative media.  But when I became a public school teacher, I learned that it is not the case. 

If anything, the teachers' unions do a horrible job of defending teachers whose administrators want to fire them.  Firing an incompetent teacher is very easy.  Districts often don't fire incompetent teachers in the middle of the school year because what kind of teachers are available in November?  Teachers who themselves were fired in the middle of a school year or who weren't good enough to be hired back in April. 

So they keep the incompetent teacher until April and effectively fire them by not renewing their contract at the end of the year.  This type of passive firing is devastating because the teacher now has to try to hired by another district and it will be obvious that they didn't have their contract renewed.  I've never seen any union lift a finger to stop this practice.  The district/principal can do it with no documentation of poor performance, no record of counseling, no due process, no nothing. 

But even that passive firing only happens to the truly grossly incompetent teachers.  Maybe the bottom five percentile at the very most.  Teachers who are incompetent but not grossly so or mediocre with little potential for improvement will have their contracts renewed because there are not enough good teachers willing to work for teacher pay to replace them.  Yes, students often are blessed with a truly great teacher or two, but that is random, not because of any staffing practice that a tax-funded school would ever be able to use.

EDIT:  After I posted this, I realized that what I said above may be more true in Texas than in other states.  Texans aren't nearly as supportive of unions since we recognize parasites when we see them.  But I'd want to see some evidence that unions are responsible for keeping incompetent teachers rather than than the factors I talked about.  Evidence would not include an Ann Coulter weekly column, by the way.

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The Dept. of Education and Congress are a problem. They mandate what must be taught and what the specific age related results must be.


Not exactly.  They mandate that the states must set a standardized curriculum with standardized testing, but they leave the details to them (yay federalism, huh?).  There is a movement toward a nationwide standardized curriculum called "Common Core," but that movement was actually initiated by the National Governors Association," so it is itself a state initiative.  I applaud Texas for so far avoiding that, but most other states have adopted it.

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I don't know exactly who is responsible for children being taught collectivism and ant-American dogma, but it isn't local parents or private school teachers.


You're very correct about the private schools.

But, how can you expect public school teachers who are government employees being paid far more than their skill level would bring in the free market to advocate for anything but collectivism? 
  

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Jeff
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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #31 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 4:35pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 3:17pm:
Yeah, I used to think that also.  It's a very common complaint on conservative media.  But when I became a public school teacher, I learned that it is not the case. 
Nonsense.
  
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Jeff
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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #32 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 4:39pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 3:17pm:
Not exactly.  They mandate that the states must set a standardized curriculum with standardized testing...
And the states pass the mandate along to the local schools, who have to teach and test like the DOE bureaucrats decree.

That's a serious problem. As bad as unionized public school teachers that school districts (part of the local government, dont'cha know?) are required by federal law to "negotiate" with.
  
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Jeff
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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #33 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 4:44pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 3:17pm:
But, how can you expect public school teachers who are government employees being paid far more than their skill level would bring in the free market to advocate for anything but collectivism? 
You're talking about unionized government employees.

Public employees unions don't like libertarians, so members of teacher's unions know to teach collectivism.

Besides, they learned in teacher's college that collectivism is good and America is bad, most especially because of "evil" capitalism.

The education deep state system even provides unionized public school teachers with cute educational videos about how white males are the cause of everything bad in the world, and that their 10 year old classmates who are brave enough to realize that they are trans are heroes of the new age.


  
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Little Big Man
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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #34 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 6:19pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 4:44pm:
You're talking about unionized government employees.



Again, that goes against what I have seen with my own eyes.  You obviously got this from someone's blog.  Link me to it and I'll see what the evidence is.

  

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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #35 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 7:40pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 6:19pm:
Again, that goes against what I have seen with my own eyes.  You obviously got this from someone's blog.  Link me to it and I'll see what the evidence is.

You have no real world experience with unions do you?

There's a link to the right on this forum page for "Right to Work" that will take you to the NRTW website where you could learn a lot. Smiley
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #36 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 8:48pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 7:40pm:
You have no real world experience with unions do you?

There's a link to the right on this forum page for "Right to Work" that will take you to the NRTW website where you could learn a lot. Smiley


I was a Teamster and then a supervisor of Teamsters for twelve years when I worked at UPS.  I was in the NEA for almost fifteen years while I was a  public school teacher.

So instead of telling me things you know nothing about, why don't you link to some specific examples of when the teacher unions have caused public education to be the incredible mess that it is. 

I'm willing to look at your evidence and if I'm wrong, I'll chalk it up to Texas being different.  But I'm not going to disbelieve my own experience "because you say so."

  

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Little Big Man
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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #37 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:34pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 4:39pm:
And the states pass the mandate along to the local schools, who have to teach and test like the DOE bureaucrats decree.

That's a serious problem. As bad as unionized public school teachers that school districts (part of the local government, dont'cha know?) are required by federal law to "negotiate" with.


All that is completely inevitable once you take paying for schools out of the hands of parents and give that responsibility to the taxpayer.

Of course the taxpayers are not going to say, "well, let the parents decide how to spend my money."  Everyone wants a voice in the process and all the districts will want more money. 

If the state this year has some surplus from its toll roads, and offers it to school districts, the school districts are going to take it.  Next year the state increases the tolls so that their budget for helping schools can be increased and also add some new rules for taking the money. 

How are districts supposed to say "no?"  As soon as they do say, "no, I don't want your rules so keep your money," the board members will be voted out by taxpayers angry that they are paying into the states education fund and their kids aren't benefiting. 

That's what taxes do, Jeff.  They snowball and give more and more control to government and less and less control to the people under the government. 

Not sometime, not most of the time, not almost all of the time, but,

One.  Hundred.  Percent.  Of.  The.  Time.
  

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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #38 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 7:12am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 8:48pm:
I was a Teamster and then a supervisor of Teamsters for twelve years when I worked at UPS.  I was in the NEA for almost fifteen years while I was a  public school teacher.

So instead of telling me things you know nothing about, why don't you link to some specific examples of when the teacher unions have caused public education to be the incredible mess that it is. 


Unions make it difficult to fire incompetent employees. That has contributed to the problems in the field of education.

Public employees unions in particular drive up the cost of everything for taxpayers.
  
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Re: How Long will Kaz Last this Time? Join the Pool!
Reply #39 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 7:16am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
All that is completely inevitable once you take paying for schools out of the hands of parents and give that responsibility to the taxpayer.


You mean to say that parents of children in local schools have driven the creation of federal mandates for teaching and testing?

As I mentioned, I attended public schools (in two different states) in the '50s and '60s. What was taught and how it was taught and how students were evaluated were in the hands of parents, teachers and local administrators. It was cost effective and worked well.

It was the federal mandates that took the decisions about local public schools out of the hands of parents and teachers and local administrators. It was a cooperative effort between the local parents, local teachers and local administrators that decided how to spend local tax money.
  
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