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Little Big Man
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Libertarian Take On Incest
Jan 7th, 2019 at 4:42pm
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First of all, thanks to the board for allowing this important topic to be discussed freely.

Barring the involvement of children, I can think of no libertarian principle by which we should tolerate a government that bans incest.

Does anyone?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #1 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 5:19pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 4:42pm:
First of all, thanks to the board for allowing this important topic to be discussed freely.

Barring the involvement of children, I can think of no libertarian principle by which we should tolerate a government that bans incest.

Does anyone?

West Virginia used to have a reputation for being very tolerant about that sort of thing I think...

To my knowledge they discouraged having sex with your (or anybody's) children below the age of 12.

I could be wrong, and maybe they've changed their laws and increased enforcement. IDK.

If you want to marry your sister or your mother, what's it to me? If you have children that are defective, take care of them yourselves.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #2 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:44pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 5:19pm:
West Virginia used to have a reputation for being very tolerant about that sort of thing I think...

To my knowledge they discouraged having sex with your (or anybody's) children below the age of 12.

I could be wrong, and maybe they've changed their laws and increased enforcement. IDK.

If you want to marry your sister or your mother, what's it to me? If you have children that are defective, take care of them yourselves.


Hear, hear!
  

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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:14pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:44pm:
Hear, hear!
The problem will be to convince the people in your community that incest between consenting adults is OK.

Some people where I live might do it in secret, but I don't think most of the community are prepared to accept it openly.

I'm not interested in talking them into it and am positive it shouldn't be a Libertarian Party talking point.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #4 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:26pm
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Here's my personal position, which I think is as libertarian as possible in the real world.

Brother-sister or cousin-cousin? Allow it, but only within a certain age difference. Let's say five years.

Father-daughter or mother-son? Nope. That's so likely to be abuse that it's not worth considering that it might not be. I'm sorry we don't live in a better world where people would use freedom responsibly.

Uncle-niece? Again, nope. Waaaay too likely to be abusive.

Also, if you make deformed babies, you abort 'em or pay for 'em.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Little Big Man
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #5 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:14pm:
The problem will be to convince the people in your community that incest between consenting adults is OK.

Some people where I live might do it in secret, but I don't think most of the community are prepared to accept it openly.


What I do with my cousin is none of my communty's business as long as I don't ask them to pay for it.

Quote:
I'm not interested in talking them into it and am positive it shouldn't be a Libertarian Party talking point.


So, you only support freedom for things you agree with?

To be libertarian, you must argue against any government intrusion into people's freedom.  Anything else is "I like what I like and I don't want to defend what I don't like."

Your attempt to make government sound better by calling it "the community" is kinda lame.

Finding a partner to love is one of the most important keys to having a happy life.  For government to restrict us from loving relatives (who are actually more likely to be compatible) is absurdly cruel.

  

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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #6 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:32pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:29pm:
What I do with my cousin is none of my communty's business as long as I don't ask them to pay for it.
Convince them, not me, and don't try to pretend it's a burning issue for libertarians or that most libertarians want incest legalized.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #7 - Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:37pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:29pm:
So, you only support freedom for things you agree with?
How have you reached that conclusion?

I believe in the theory of general liberty. It's just that I am aware of the fact that incest is not acceptable to most people in America and that making it a libertarian talking point makes as much sense as advocating anarchy.

If you want to convince most people that government control is essential, advocate for anarchy and incest.
  
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #8 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 1:57am
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Little Big Man
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #9 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:34pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:26pm:
Here's my personal position, which I think is as libertarian as possible in the real world.

Brother-sister or cousin-cousin? Allow it, but only within a certain age difference. Let's say five years.

Father-daughter or mother-son? Nope. That's so likely to be abuse that it's not worth considering that it might not be. I'm sorry we don't live in a better world where people would use freedom responsibly.

Uncle-niece? Again, nope. Waaaay too likely to be abusive.

Also, if you make deformed babies, you abort 'em or pay for 'em.


Interesting points.    I would apply an age difference limit only to relatives who are under 18, and I would narrow it to three years, with no age of consent possible for a person of either gender prior to age 13. 

You wouldn’t allow a niece to have sex with her handsome uncle even if they were both over 18 ?  What if they just made out a couple of times when she came home from college and the family had Christmas dinner?  In Texas we sometimes have uncles and nieces who are the same age since their parents had kids far apart.  I once knew an uncle and nephew who were in the same grade.   If they were a boy and a girl they could have had kids guaranteed to have the “Robinson stubborn streak” or whatever.

But you did say “likely to be abusive” not “abusive in all cases.” 

So would you also support a law that prevents relationships that are known to be abusive?  I’m talking about women whose men are physically or emotionally abusive and the women keep going back to them. 

Also, not to be sexist, plenty of women are abusive to male partners and abuse is even more common in same-sex relationships.  What efforts should be made to police those relationships?


  

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