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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Libertarian Take On Incest (Read 587 times)
Little Big Man
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #10 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:39pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:14pm:
The problem will be to convince the people in your community that incest between consenting adults is OK


That is not the problem.  Whether “my community” however you define it, thinks what I as a consenting adult do with another consenting adult is “OK” is completely irrelevant to whether I have a right to do it and whether government should take that right away.

If I were to convince my community of anything, it would be to convince them that it isn’t their role to have me submit my actions to them for approval.

  

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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #11 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:46pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:39pm:
That is not the problem.  Whether “my community” however you define it, thinks what I as a consenting adult do with another consenting adult is “OK” is completely irrelevant to whether I have a right to do it and whether government should take that right away.

If I were to convince my community of anything, it would be to convince them that it isn’t their role to have me submit my actions to them for approval.

Good. Everything's cool. Just don't expect incest to be legalized any time soon in America.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #12 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:49pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:46pm:
Good. Everything's cool. Just don't expect incest to be legalized any time soon in America.


Not to nitpick you, but I hate the term “legalized.”  I know it’s on a libertarian bumper sticker:  “Legalize Freedom,” but that gets it wrong I think.  We don’t need to make lists of things to “legalize,” we need to repeal every law that violates our freedom forthwith. 
  

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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #13 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 6:02pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:49pm:
Not to nitpick you, but I hate the term “legalized.”
Nevertheless, it's a good term to use when something is currently illegal.
  
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kaz
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #14 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 8:51pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 5:19pm:
To my knowledge they discouraged having sex with your (or anybody's) children below the age of 12


As if you ever waited to 12 ...
  

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kaz
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #15 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 8:52pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 8:44pm:
Hear, hear!


When it comes to sex with children, your motto is more here here ...
  

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kaz
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #16 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 8:53pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:14pm:
The problem will be to convince the people in your community that incest between consenting adults is OK.

Some people where I live might do it in secret, but I don't think most of the community are prepared to accept it openly.

I'm not interested in talking them into it and am positive it shouldn't be a Libertarian Party talking point.


In your case, incest in secret is the same as boozing, something you do on your front porch
  

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kaz
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #17 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 8:55pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:34pm:
Interesting points.    I would apply an age difference limit only to relatives who are under 18, and I would narrow it to three years, with no age of consent possible for a person of either gender prior to age 13. 


Yes, you'd only apply age limits to people who are greater than your age and a 13 year old, not your age and a 13 year old.

1
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #18 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:29pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:34pm:
Interesting points.    I would apply an age difference limit only to relatives who are under 18, and I would narrow it to three years, with no age of consent possible for a person of either gender prior to age 13. 

You wouldn’t allow a niece to have sex with her handsome uncle even if they were both over 18 ?  What if they just made out a couple of times when she came home from college and the family had Christmas dinner?  In Texas we sometimes have uncles and nieces who are the same age since their parents had kids far apart.


I was pondering this when I wrote it, and I still really want to say no. Even without a significant age gap, there might be a big power gap.

Blobert is one of five brothers. He's 23, and his brothers are 21, 19, 15, and 14.

Blobert invites all his brothers over to his house. They have sex with his kids. Because his oldest kid was 13 and the youngest brother was 14, that one walks.

I would very much prefer a world where I could just say, "yes, go for it, let true love win" but there are soooo many pervos out there that I sincerely believe they who would abuse the permission to commit rape, outnumber the instances of true love prevented by the lack of permission, even considering that there might be other evidence that it was rape.

Narrow the age gap to 15% of the niece's age, and eliminate it if she's 25.

There especially have to be rules like this for children, because it's the parents who are likely to abuse them. In any other case, you can say, let the parents decide.

Little Big Man wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:34pm:
So would you also support a law that prevents relationships that are known to be abusive?  I’m talking about women whose men are physically or emotionally abusive and the women keep going back to them. 

Also, not to be sexist, plenty of women are abusive to male partners and abuse is even more common in same-sex relationships.  What efforts should be made to police those relationships?


In general I say adults have the right to make their own decisions, but I don't have a good answer for this one.

Mainly, these abusive partners are liars, always saying how they'll never do this or that again or otherwise manufacturing the understanding that things will be different, (as well as intentionally creating dependency)... Meaning they're defrauding the victim.

The best answer I can give is that if you believe in strongly policing fraud, then yes, by that version of the NAP that sort of emotional abuse should be out of bounds. If you're not a stickler for fraud, then no, let the cesspots emotionally beat their punching bags.

I hate that I have to have these conditionals, and I think it's the fault of libertarians not having their own basics down. Some will tell you fraud isn't aggression, or only under specific circumstances, or always.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #19 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:14pm:
The problem will be to convince the people in your community that incest between consenting adults is OK.


You know, I could have said the same for sex between consenting males sixty years ago.

But it was pushed through (LOL) because it's right, not because anyone has to approve of it. Only 5% of the population is gay males.

Yes, there are issues with incest that do not occur in outbreeding. But it's not like there aren't issues with homosexuality, particularly between males.

Many males get raped up the butt at 12 by paedophiles pretending to be homosexuals because the culture is somewhat tolerant of paedophilia. These are males whose sexuality is still set to male preferences, meaning they desire youth and beauty. Generally speaking, they want the 16-year-old whether he's ready or not, and even whether he's gay or not. The unscrupulous ones just figure that if he's curious, and if they rape him enough, he'll turn gay, and they're not wrong. These raped males are very likely to become homosexual themselves, as well as desire to rape young male children, and it's gay culture's fault for turning a blind eye to this behaviour, though I am not actually characterising gay as likely paedophile; I'm saying their culture has an infestation of paedophiles who are pretending to be gay.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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