Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Libertarian Take On Incest
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Libertarian Take On Incest (Read 504 times)
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2249
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #30 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 3:49pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 8:32am:
If 5% of the population were gay males, 10% of males would be gay.  The stat you're mis-citing is that 5% of the population is gay.  And that is considered absurdly high, the real number is more in the 2% range.  So you took an absurdly high estimate and doubled that one, LOL.

Also, sex with 12 year olds isn't pedophilia.  It's illegal sex with a child, but kids are not typically prepubescent at 12. 

Note to Jeff, it's still illegal to have sex with 12 year olds even though it isn't pedophilia


According to self surveys by the NIH, its roughly 4%+/-2 of the populations claims to be something other than strait.  So,yeah 5% is probably high but not absurdly so.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40030
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #31 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 4:51pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 3:49pm:
According to self surveys by the NIH, its roughly 4%+/-2 of the populations claims to be something other than strait.  So,yeah 5% is probably high but not absurdly so. 
And 2% is probably low, but not absurdly so...

Why is it important anyway?

Why is my tax money wasted on such unimportant nonsense?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9036
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #32 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:22pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 2:25pm:
The ancient Egyptian royalty used to practice brother-sister marriage. There are some potential drawbacks if you have children. Too much inbreeding of a family line can cause problems too.

It's probably why the prohibitions on incest arose.


Okay, so just hear me out on a hypothetical.

Let's say incest is legalised, and the fidelity rate for brothers and sisters (perhaps 90%) is so much higher than the average (less than 60%) that overall, even though there are more birth defects, children of brother-sister incest are, overall, healthier and happier.

They need so much less counseling and therapy, and commit so many fewer crimes (all natural results of less parental split-ups) that they take less from the system even assuming the government helps with the deformed and retarded ones.

However, uncle-niece marriage is shown to be more problematic and cost the system more than regular marriages. Their kids are &^%&ed up, and the relationships are often abusive, as well as having the same low fidelity of the general population.

Do you say:
A: Obviously, allow brother-sister marriage but make uncle-niece marriage illegal again.
B: Make all incest illegal again, since it has bad results in some cases.
C: Only allow brothers and sisters to get married, since these marriages produce the best overall results (criminalise all other marriages).
D: Well shit, in some cases, I was wrong about incest. This just proves people should always have had the freedom to make their own choices about it.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40030
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #33 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 7:08am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:22pm:
Okay, so just hear me out on a hypothetical.

Let's say incest is legalised, and the fidelity rate for brothers and sisters (perhaps 90%) is so much higher than the average (less than 60%) that overall, even though there are more birth defects, children of brother-sister incest are, overall, healthier and happier.

They need so much less counseling and therapy, and commit so many fewer crimes (all natural results of less parental split-ups) that they take less from the system even assuming the government helps with the deformed and retarded ones.

However, uncle-niece marriage is shown to be more problematic and cost the system more than regular marriages. Their kids are &^%&ed up, and the relationships are often abusive, as well as having the same low fidelity of the general population.

Do you say:
A: Obviously, allow brother-sister marriage but make uncle-niece marriage illegal again.
B: Make all incest illegal again, since it has bad results in some cases.
C: Only allow brothers and sisters to get married, since these marriages produce the best overall results (criminalise all other marriages).
D: Well shit, in some cases, I was wrong about incest. This just proves people should always have had the freedom to make their own choices about it.
I say that I, like most libertarians, begin with a theory of general liberty for individuals.

I don't think incest is an important issue for libertarians (or anyone else except the few who engage in incest).

No doubt people engage in incest, probably even in police states.

If people start marching in the streets demanding that brothers and sisters or mothers and sons be allowed to legally marry, to have their relationship sanctioned by the state, I will ignore them.

This is a much more important issue for libertarians-

https://reason.com/blog/2019/01/10/california-police-fight-to-stop-new-law?utm_m...

BTW, as I said before, if you produce a defective child, please don't force me to help you care for it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9036
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #34 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:14am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 7:08am:
I say that I, like most libertarians, begin with a theory of general liberty for individuals.


No, you don't. You hate free speech and you really love to roll in your moral superiority when anyone steps out of line and says something that can be easily demonised.

Jeff wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 5:07pm:
RubyHypatia wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 9:03am:
We can have the Draw Mohammed Day on the internet again.  I'm reminded of that movie about the North Korean dictator.  If we won't allow him to bully us out of free speech, why should Muslims be allowed to?  Why should anyone be allowed to?


Ruby, if you feel "bullied out of free speech", I can only say, Hurrah! Hallelujah!

But obviously you don't, because you haven't shut up.

If you want to be a Hero of Free Speech, do the organizing and make sure your real name and face become well known.
Please, please do it.


The sad thing is, I'd do anything to be like you. To be this sure I was right. But I can't, because I question everything, and I find contradictions in stuff like that.

All I can do is apply principles consistently. I hardly ever get the right answer.

Moralists and religiosos can skip to the right answer without having to think.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40030
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #35 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 4:13pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:14am:
No, you don't. You hate free speech and you really love to roll in your moral superiority when anyone steps out of line and says something that can be easily demonised.


Ruby, if you feel "bullied out of free speech", I can only say, Hurrah! Hallelujah!

Ruby said things I didn't agree with that were rather reprehensible from my viewpoint. Cry

If Ruby had somehow felt bullied so that she stopped posting on this forum, I would have been pleased. Smiley I'm happy that she isn't posting. Smiley Smiley Smiley

If you think that makes me a bad person, then I say you are a limp weenie and a very short white man with nasty opinions... Grin

Edit: Or possibly a dragon who can shoot flames out of it's ass, or maybe a Vulcan... Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40030
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #36 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 4:19pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:14am:
The sad thing is, I'd do anything to be like you. To be this sure I was right.
As I've told you many times, I'm a human who has a good grasp of my own limitations. I know my intellect is only average, but I learned how to learn from the talents of really smart people.

Also as I've said (Sorry to be repetitive, but you can't seem to remember) I've known a few geniuses, and you aren't one. Not in my judgement.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 6915
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #37 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 5:14pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:14am:
The sad thing is, I'd do anything to be like you {Jeff}


Seriously?  You want to drink yourself to sleep and fall off your porch every day?  Why?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40030
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #38 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 6:26pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 5:14pm:
Seriously?  You want to drink yourself to sleep and fall off your porch every day?  Why?
I think the lizard was attempting sarcasm...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9036
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Libertarian Take On Incest
Reply #39 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 10:42pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 5:14pm:
Seriously?  You want to drink yourself to sleep and fall off your porch every day?  Why?


I want to be as certain I am right as Jeff was when he said this:

Jeff wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 5:07pm:
RubyHypatia wrote on May 11th, 2015 at 9:03am:
We can have the Draw Mohammed Day on the internet again.  I'm reminded of that movie about the North Korean dictator.  If we won't allow him to bully us out of free speech, why should Muslims be allowed to?  Why should anyone be allowed to?


Ruby, if you feel "bullied out of free speech", I can only say, Hurrah! Hallelujah!

But obviously you don't, because you haven't shut up.

If you want to be a Hero of Free Speech, do the organizing and make sure your real name and face become well known.
Please, please do it.


...When he wished Ruby dead for wanting free speech.

If I had enough moral certainty to wish people dead, I'd pretty much never be unhappy with my life, for any reason.

I'd get out there and crusade, knowing I was doing the right thing.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Libertarian Take On Incest
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy