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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Higher Education is a Bubble (Read 743 times)
The Opposition
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Higher Education is a Bubble
Jan 7th, 2019 at 10:22pm
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https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvqw3x/what-a-student-loan-bubble-bursting-mi...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/04/the-30-most-in-demand-skills-in-2019-according-t...

Quote:
Meanwhile, some people are more than happy to spend $100,000 on a graphic design degree that may get them a job paying roughly $40,000 a year. Something seems off there.


...And it's a bubble that you can't just stop investing in, because the moment you do, you lose.

Every day I see another article promising that it knows what companies want, and every day I read about more tech jobs being outsourced and I even hear about this from people I know who work in tech.

Why the outsourcing? Well, because other countries can do this whole education thing cheaper.

Meanwhile, in the US, the free market (and government-backed student loans of course) continues to do its worst.

Every person who borrows money he doesn't have to get a good degree, so he can get a good job, at once lessens the value of the degree and increases competition for the job.

...So the job will pay less, because there's more competition for it.

So what's a free market connoisseur to do?

Make sure he has an advantage in that competition, of course!

...He gets more education.

...So does everyone else.

...Government steps in, worsening the problem and further inflating the price of education with their free money and artificial demand, that adds to the actual demand.

So while master's degrees are working as waitresses in the US, people in other countries who got educated for less are taking the good tech jobs.

We have three choices:

1. The government stays out of it completely, meaning that we have to accept that education is going to price some people out of the game, and generational classism is going to exist. Only the reasonably wealthy will have enough money to send their kids to college, and those kids will get the jobs.

2. Stay on the current path, bankrupting the working class as they throw everything they have, and some money they don't have, on the big competition pile the government is making worse, in vain hopes of getting the good job.

3. The government butts into education? Price freeze on tuition. As a college, you take a single government dime, you do the price freeze. Don't want to do the price freeze? Fine. Pop. Get that tit out of your mouth.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:05am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 10:22pm:
Here's another take on it-

http://thecrux.com/the-skills-gap-was-a-lie/

Government guaranteed loans for college tuition are not an investment, they are a tax funded gift to colleges and universities who admit more and more unqualified students who frequently don't graduate and frequently graduate with useless degrees and huge debts.
  
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kaz
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #2 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 8:47am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 10:22pm:
Higher Education is a Bubble


That can certainly be true, but it depends what field you're in and what you want to do with your degree.  If you want to teach the arts at a university for a living, you typically need a PhD.  If you're in the sciences, law, medicine, graduate degrees do pay.  Getting random degrees with no plans how you're leveraging them though typically ends up as you say
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #3 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 9:33am
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kaz wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 8:47am:
That can certainly be true, but it depends what field you're in and what you want to do with your degree.  If you want to teach the arts at a university for a living, you typically need a PhD.  If you're in the sciences, law, medicine, graduate degrees do pay.  Getting random degrees with no plans how you're leveraging them though typically ends up as you say
The bubble is in student loans. That's what the original posted article is about, but contrary to what the lizard says, nobody is "investing" in outstanding student loans.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #4 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:11pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:05am:
Here's another take on it-

http://thecrux.com/the-skills-gap-was-a-lie/

Government guaranteed loans for college tuition are not an investment, they are a tax funded gift to colleges and universities who admit more and more unqualified students who frequently don't graduate and frequently graduate with useless degrees and huge debts.


Quote:
The theory here was that high unemployment reflected a structural shift in the labor market such that jobs were available, but workers simply didn’t have the right education or training for them. Harvard Business Review ran articles about this — including articles rebutting people who said the “skills gap” didn’t exist — and big companies like Siemens ran paid sponsor content in the Atlantic explaining how to fix the skills gap.


Right, because they want the public giving them free money.

And the public is so goddamn stupid that if companies say, "No, really, we uhm... we have *snicker snicker* lots and lots of jobs, it's just we can't find applicants with the skills we need." then the public will give those companies free money.

Nevermind the fact that if putting warm bodies in those jobs would turn those companies a profit, they would educate the best applicants themselves (perhaps with a pay-it-back agreement; the company pays for your education and you pay it back out of your salary).

"We need our children educated more!" cry the public.

The government responds by bilking the public for tons of money and throwing it at universities to please, please educate the kids so they can get those juicy, plentiful jobs which all totally exist.

Cue Harvard rolling in free government money and laughing because there were not those jobs to begin with.

kaz wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 8:47am:
That can certainly be true, but it depends what field you're in and what you want to do with your degree.  If you want to teach the arts at a university for a living, you typically need a PhD.  If you're in the sciences, law, medicine, graduate degrees do pay.  Getting random degrees with no plans how you're leveraging them though typically ends up as you say


This is true, but it's also true that increasingly, people who raced to get educated in tech and sciences are also out of work. There is simply overcompetition for all of these positions.

This is what, ten years ago, was supposedly the "right" choice - computers. Tech. Now it's all outsourced to China and graduates are out of work.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #5 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 6:25am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:11pm:
This is true, but it's also true that increasingly, people who raced to get educated in tech and sciences are also out of work. There is simply overcompetition for all of these positions.

This is what, ten years ago, was supposedly the "right" choice - computers. Tech. Now it's all outsourced to China and graduates are out of work.


Bull shit, you made this up
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #6 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:00am
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kaz wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 6:25am:
Bull shit, you made this up


It's not hard to find a story about hard-to-find tech work.

https://medium.com/@jproco/why-its-still-so-hard-to-find-an-amazing-tech-job-in-...

https://www.inc.com/wanda-thibodeaux/this-survey-just-explained-exactly-why-its-...

I know people who got educated along those lines.

The usual refrain is, "Well, I guess we just can't compete with China."

..Which is true. China just does it cheaper.

I say we should celebrate the colleges who managed to cash in on the speculative bubble, for their superior business sense.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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ahhell
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:00am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:11pm:
This is true, but it's also true that increasingly, people who raced to get educated in tech and sciences are also out of work. There is simply overcompetition for all of these positions.

This is what, ten years ago, was supposedly the "right" choice - computers. Tech. Now it's all outsourced to China and graduates are out of work.

This is false, yes there are unemployed techies but they're very hard to find. 

Those were nice op ed peaces basically, say, "why can't you find the perfect job"   But here's some actual data, because its even easier to find stories about how STEM fields have the lowest unemployment rates. 

https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/jobs-lowest-unemployment-rates/

https://www.straighterline.com/blog/which-college-majors-have-the-highest-and-lo...
  
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kaz
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 5:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:00am:
It's not hard to find a story about hard-to-find tech work.

https://medium.com/@jproco/why-its-still-so-hard-to-find-an-amazing-tech-job-in-...

https://www.inc.com/wanda-thibodeaux/this-survey-just-explained-exactly-why-its-...

I know people who got educated along those lines.

The usual refrain is, "Well, I guess we just can't compete with China."

..Which is true. China just does it cheaper.

I say we should celebrate the colleges who managed to cash in on the speculative bubble, for their superior business sense.


You didn't read your links, did you?  Be honest
  

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kaz
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #9 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 5:05pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:00am:
This is false, yes there are unemployed techies but they're very hard to find. 

Those were nice op ed peaces basically, say, "why can't you find the perfect job"   But here's some actual data, because its even easier to find stories about how STEM fields have the lowest unemployment rates. 

https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/jobs-lowest-unemployment-rates/

https://www.straighterline.com/blog/which-college-majors-have-the-highest-and-lo...


Agreed.  The first article was purely anecdotal.  The second one didn't talk about people with tech skills, just people trying to get a tech job.  I have people calling me just asking me, kaz, do you know ANYONE with tech skills available?

  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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