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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Higher Education is a Bubble (Read 835 times)
Jeff
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #10 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 6:24pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 5:05pm:
Agreed.  The first article was purely anecdotal.  The second one didn't talk about people with tech skills, just people trying to get a tech job.  I have people calling me just asking me, kaz, do you know ANYONE with tech skills available?

Have you tried looking in tech schools for people about to graduate? There aren't enough of them, and the one's who are available choose to work for companies besides yours?

How much are you offering for what kind of skills?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #11 - Jan 11th, 2019 at 10:39pm
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ahhell wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:00am:
This is false, yes there are unemployed techies but they're very hard to find. 

Those were nice op ed peaces basically, say, "why can't you find the perfect job"   But here's some actual data, because its even easier to find stories about how STEM fields have the lowest unemployment rates. 

https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/jobs-lowest-unemployment-rates/

https://www.straighterline.com/blog/which-college-majors-have-the-highest-and-lo...


How can you claim that certain fields have a zero unemployment rate? What certification or degree is the basis for considering that no one with those qualifications is out of work?

Surely they get a lot of unqualified applicants, like any job. What's the basis for sorting a legitimate cybersecurity expert looking for work from someone unqualified and simply applying for the job?

My guess is employers set these qualifications so they can claim they have the jobs, and all the applicants are unqualified.

I know people who are certified MTA/MSCE and either can't find jobs, or who have been priced out of the market by China.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #12 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:05am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 10:39pm:
My guess is employers set these qualifications so they can claim they have the jobs, and all the applicants are unqualified.

My guess is they advertise for qualified people because they need qualified people.

In any skill or profession, if you need someone to perform a job, you look for someone qualified to do it... Need bricklayers to build you a fireplace in your family room? You hire qualified bricklayers. I guess you could hire people who actually had no qualifications and try to teach them to lay brick... But that assumes you are qualified to teach them. Need a qualified structural engineer to help you design a bridge across the river running through your property? Same thing.

If there is a shortage of bricklayers or structural engineers in your area, you just might want to bring them in from out of the area.


  
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kaz
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #13 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:10am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 10:39pm:
How can you claim that certain fields have a zero unemployment rate? What certification or degree is the basis for considering that no one with those qualifications is out of work?

Surely they get a lot of unqualified applicants, like any job. What's the basis for sorting a legitimate cybersecurity expert looking for work from someone unqualified and simply applying for the job?

My guess is employers set these qualifications so they can claim they have the jobs, and all the applicants are unqualified.

I know people who are certified MTA/MSCE and either can't find jobs, or who have been priced out of the market by China.


Here's the problem with your argument.  It addresses a point no one made, including Ahhell in the text you quoted from him.

No one said the unemployment rate in tech is "zero."  Yes, there are people with criminal backgrounds, who fail drug tests, who have mental issues, who are not qualified and don't have a strong tech background.  That doesn't contradict that if you have solid tech skills and don't have mental or criminal issues and want a job, you almost certainly have one.  Note the "almost," dumb ass.

You really are stupid, aren't you?  You're not pretending.  You just see things people didn't say as clearly as the spiders crawling up your leg.  Remember the other day when you whined that Jeff misquotes you?  That was classic
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #14 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 11:31am
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kaz wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:10am:
No one said the unemployment rate in tech is "zero."


The article, which I was addressing, says the cybersecurity expert unemployment rate is zero.

https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/jobs-lowest-unemployment-rates/
Quote:
Cybersecurity Expert – The Cybersecurity Business Report claims a zero unemployment rate for workers in this demanding job. The employment crisis for cybersecurity experts is expected to continue through 2021. In 2016, there were 1 million job openings, with two openings for every available job candidate. The rapid job growth is expected to reach 1.5 million positions by 2019.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #15 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 11:37am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 11:31am:
The article, which I was addressing, says the cybersecurity expert unemployment rate is zero.

https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/jobs-lowest-unemployment-rates/


"Cybersecurity experts" is not a field.  It's experts in cybersecurity.

No one is claiming the unemployment rate is zero in any "field."  That's too broad.

Note also it specified for cybersecurity experts there are two job openings for each candidate.

It did not say that people with criminal, drug abuse, incompetence, hostility issues can get jobs and it certainly didn't say that non experts can get a job as an expert.

What point do you think you made beyond duh, no shit?
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #16 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 11:55am
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kaz wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 11:37am:
"Cybersecurity experts" is not a field.  It's experts in cybersecurity.


https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/line%20of%20work

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/field
field
4: a sphere of activity, interest, etc., especially within a particular business or profession

My only question was how they determine who is a legit cybersecurity expert. It's a fair question.

People will no doubt see that article, race to get whatever degree universities will hold up as the necessary training to become a cybersecurity expert, and realise that the job isn't as easy to get as they thought.

I have a rational doubt of any field claiming a zero unemployment, and that there are two jobs for everyone qualified. You should too.

If businesses would really turn a profit by putting warm, trained bodies in those positions, and there really wasn't anyone trained, they would train a few people themselves.

A claim of zero unemployment looks to me like part of this same shell game I'm claiming exists in the first place. The businesses have tons of jobs, you just didn't get the right degree. The next generation goes into debt, sacrifices everything, and gets those degrees. Well, shoot. You chose the wrong shell. Please grind out your life in a minimum wage job, save as much as you can, and sacrifice everything so your kid can pick a shell. Whoops! Nothing under that one, either! Rats. Better luck next time.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #17 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:28pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 11:55am:
My only question was how they determine who is a legit cybersecurity expert. It's a fair question


Walk me through the devastating logic you're cleverly setting up of how their definition of cybersecurity expert will lead you to blow me away for challenging your assertion that tech graduates are out of work that you backed up with anecdotal articles.

The Opposition wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:11pm:
it's also true that increasingly, people who raced to get educated in tech and sciences are also out of work. There is simply overcompetition for all of these positions.

This is what, ten years ago, was supposedly the "right" choice - computers. Tech. Now it's all outsourced to China and graduates are out of work.
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #18 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:38pm
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kaz wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:28pm:
Walk me through the devastating logic you're cleverly setting up of how their definition of cybersecurity expert will lead you to blow me away for challenging your assertion that tech graduates are out of work that you backed up with anecdotal articles.


I'm not trying to blow anyone away. I have a rational doubt of any field that claims a zero unemployment rate.

Ahhell seems correct that the unemployment in tech was lower than I thought it was, but my main claim is that the shell game I described exists.

I believe people are being misled to speculatively invest in degrees and keep the bubble from bursting when the demand is not as high as these sorts of articles make out.

Okay, I shouldn't have said it's all outsourced to China, but I do know people who work in tech and much of the work they need in programming is outsourced to China, where it can be done more cheaply.

I believe I have a pretty good case that if there were really all these unfilled positions, that could turn a profit with warm, trained bodies in them, the companies would train people to fill those positions themselves. Therefore, the claims of having many jobs but no qualified applicants are somewhat suspect.

Companies used to do this a lot. I was scouted a long time ago, when I was very young, and I regret not taking the offer. I didn't want to work in software development. I wanted to do research. I did get a job in research, but the 2008 economy took care of that.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Higher Education is a Bubble
Reply #19 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:41pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:38pm:
I'm not trying to blow anyone away. I have a rational doubt of any field that claims a zero unemployment rate.

Ahhell seems correct that the unemployment in tech was lower than I thought it was, but my main claim is that the shell game I described exists.

I believe people are being misled to speculatively invest in degrees and keep the bubble from bursting when the demand is not as high as these sorts of articles make out.

I believe I have a pretty good case that if there were really all these unfilled positions, that could turn a profit with warm, trained bodies in them, the companies would train people to fill those positions themselves. Therefore, the claims of having many jobs but no qualified applicants are somewhat suspect.

Companies used to do this a lot. I was scouted a long time ago, when I was very young, and I regret not taking the offer. I didn't want to work in software development. I wanted to do research. I did get a job in research, but the 2008 economy took care of that.


If you have legitimate market based technical skills and can't get a job right now, something is going on there.   You're doing something wrong
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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