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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy? (Read 362 times)
Jeff
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #40 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:39am
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kaz wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 8:40am:
What a horrible job government does at educating our children.  We have the most expensive schools that do the worst job educating children in the industrialized world.  And they are leftist indoctrination camps.  Anything but government would be a better option
It wasn't that way when schools were funded and controlled locally.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #41 - Jan 13th, 2019 at 11:36am
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kaz wrote yesterday at 8:40am:
Quote:
What a horrible job government does at educating our children.  We have the most expensive schools that do the worst job educating children in the industrialized world.  And they are leftist indoctrination camps.  Anything but government would be a better option


Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:39am:
It wasn't that way when schools were funded and controlled locally.


Yes, in those days government schools did an reasonable job of educating children who wanted to learn and who:

1)  Were White
2)  Spoke English well
3)  Had no disabilities.

It took federal intervention for kids who were not white, did not speak English well or had disabilities to get the benefit of the education that their parents were being taxed to provide other children.

If we did not tax people to pay for public schools, they could afford send their children to schools who would serve their needs. 

Plus that would not be stealing.

  

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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #42 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 4:00pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 13th, 2019 at 11:36am:
kaz wrote yesterday at 8:40am:



Yes, in those days government schools did an reasonable job of educating children who wanted to learn and who:

1)  Were White
2)  Spoke English well
3)  Had no disabilities.



Right, state and local laws and bigotry in the former slave states discriminated against blacks.

You are wrong about everything else.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #43 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 4:03pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 13th, 2019 at 11:36am:
If we did not tax people to pay for public schools, they could afford send their children to schools who would serve their needs. 
Certainly if we got rid of Great Society programs and al the other forms of welfare, there would be far fewer poor people, but there would still be poor people, some of them too poor to pay to send their children to school.

No doubt you think it's a good idea to have some uneducated children around so you can get somebody to clean your pool  cheap.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #44 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:12pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 14th, 2019 at 4:03pm:
Certainly if we got rid of Great Society programs and al the other forms of welfare, there would be far fewer poor people, but there would still be poor people, some of them too poor to pay to send their children to school.




Yes, and some of them would be too poor to send their kids to the doctor, but I assume you oppose Obamacare? 

Quote:
No doubt you think it's a good idea to have some uneducated children around so you can get somebody to clean your pool  cheap.


I think that a thriving economy needs low-skilled workers and workers who are not good at book learning but who can learn a skill from an employer willing to teach it to them in exchange for relatively low-cost labor. 

I support open borders, but I don’t support creating a demand for foreign labor by forcing tax-payers to fund schools that teach American kids to turn up their nose at manual labor, even if that is what they are clearly suited for. 
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #45 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:17pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 14th, 2019 at 4:00pm:
Right, state and local laws and bigotry in the former slave states discriminated against blacks.

You are wrong about everything else.


I’m wrong about it taking federal control of schools to ensure that children with disabilities and children who speak English as a second language get the same low to mediocre education as non-disabled native speakers of English?  You’re denying history, sir.

If “local people” still controlled public schools, black parents would be taxed to pay for good schools for white kids and very low-quality schools for their own kids.  To say otherwise is also to deny history.

The free market solves that problem effortlessly.  No parent in their right mind would give money to a primary education business that provided their own children inferior service because of the color of their skin.  It takes guns to get people to do that, which is why they use them.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #46 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:30pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:12pm:
Yes, and some of them would be too poor to send their kids to the doctor, but I assume you oppose Obamacare? 
Does anybody actually support Obamacare, other than the people who have been placed on it?

But hey, if your city or town wants to tax in order to provide free medical care to children who are in school who really can't afford any medical care (do they still have school nurses?), how would you stop them from doing it?

Give it a try, convince them they don't have the right to do that sort of thing. I'll argue against it and in favor of charity in the town meeting, but maybe I won't be able to convince them... You give it a try.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #47 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:32pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:17pm:
You’re denying history, sir.


Please don't call me sir. In my culture, that's an insult. Thanks for your consideration.
  
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #48 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:42pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:30pm:
Does anybody actually support Obamacare, other than the people who have been placed on it?

But hey, if your city or town wants to tax in order to provide free medical care to children who are in school who really can't afford any medical care (do they still have school nurses?), how would you stop them from doing it?


By not giving them the right to tax in the first place.

They do have school nurses.  Not sure if it’s a legal requirement, but I’ve never heard of a campus that didn’t.  HUGE waste of personnel.  They treat perhaps one child a week with a real medical issue.  The treatment consists either of offering them to use a more private bathroom, offering them a chance to take a nap (on special medical quality “recovery couches” of course) or calling parents to come and get them.

It would be much more effecient to have one nurse per district and a dedicated bus driver to take kids to that nurse.  But that wouldn’t be giving an easy job with summers off to one extra person.  Such efficiency is not a consideration when spending unlimited amounts of OPM.

Quote:
Give it a try, convince them they don't have the right to do that sort of thing. I'll argue against it and in favor of charity in the town meeting, but maybe I won't be able to convince them... You give it a try.


Dude, if I can’t convince a person who seriously calls himself a libertarian that it is wrong to extort money from people to pay for social programs, I sure won’t convince the townsfolk. 

In a libertarian society, people who believe they have a right to tax would have to be simply ignored.  They’ll cry and whine and trash around, but if we don’t buy guns for them, they’ll just be a nuisance.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Does Illegal Immigration Help or Hurt the Economy?
Reply #49 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:50pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 14th, 2019 at 5:42pm:
By not giving them the right to tax in the first place.

They do have school nurses.  Not sure if it’s a legal requirement, but I’ve never heard of a campus that didn’t.  HUGE waste of personnel.  They treat perhaps one child a week with a real medical issue.  The treatment consists either of offering them to use a more private bathroom, offering them a chance to take a nap (on special medical quality “recovery couches” of course) or calling parents to come and get them.

It would be much more effecient to have one nurse per district and a dedicated bus driver to take kids to that nurse.  But that wouldn’t be giving an easy job with summers off to one extra person.  Such efficiency is not a consideration when spending unlimited amounts of OPM.



Probably there were more poor kids going to school back when I was. The school nurses did what good nurses do when someone gets hurt or sick, and they also gave semi-annual checkups to al the kids. None of it was a waste of time or money.
  
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