Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › ¡Ocasio!
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 29 30 [31]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ¡Ocasio! (Read 11424 times)
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 9240
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: ¡Ocasio!
Reply #300 - Nov 5th, 2019 at 2:24pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 2:04pm:
People have a right to know if their elected and appointed officials are profiting from their office


So Jeff is a "No" vote on the 4th amendment ...
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50754
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: ¡Ocasio!
Reply #301 - Nov 5th, 2019 at 2:38pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 2:24pm:
So Jeff is a "No" vote on the 4th amendment ...
No, I think it's good.

I'm not talking about elected officials doing anything other than proving to the people that they aren't profiting from their offices.

Historically, corruption in government has been a constant, and requiring that elected officials, who voluntarily become "public" servants, divulge information that might expose their corruption is one way to prevent corruption in government. Smiley

Geez kaz, forcing someone to swear an oath to defend and protect the Constitution before they can take office is a violation of their rights too, isn't it?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 9240
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: ¡Ocasio!
Reply #302 - Nov 5th, 2019 at 2:56pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
No, I think it's good.

I'm not talking about elected officials doing anything other than proving to the people that they aren't profiting from their offices.

Historically, corruption in government has been a constant, and requiring that elected officials, who voluntarily become "public" servants, divulge information that might expose their corruption is one way to prevent corruption in government. Smiley


The Constitution gives the requirements to be President.  You can't override that with a simple law.  Amend the Constitution.

I like your argument though that explaining why you don't support the 4th amendment somehow means you do support it.  Of course you're like the Democrats in that you're not even following a law while you violate the Constitution.  You want it is enough, like your position on a lot of other issues

Jeff wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
Geez kaz, forcing someone to swear an oath to defend and protect the Constitution before they can take office is a violation of their rights too, isn't it?


You say "Geez kaz" as if you're replying to something I said instead of something you made up that has nothing to do with fishing expeditions.

I'm open to a Constitutional Amendment that specifies what Constitutional rights you waive when you run for office.  But there is no legislative authority to do that, and doing it on a party politics witch hunt like the Dems are doing to trump is a Constitutional abomination
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50754
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: ¡Ocasio!
Reply #303 - Nov 5th, 2019 at 5:24pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 2:56pm:
The Constitution gives the requirements to be President.  You can't override that with a simple law.  Amend the Constitution.

You think it's necessary to amend the Constitution to specifically say that elected and appointed employees must let us see what they are actually doing?

Most of them seem to get rich doing it... Shouldn't the people who provide the money see where it's going?

Shouldn't we see, so we can watch for profiteers sucking hard on the productive taxpayers tit and making deals with cronies?
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 9240
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: ¡Ocasio!
Reply #304 - Nov 5th, 2019 at 5:41pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 5:24pm:
You think it's necessary to amend the Constitution to specifically say that elected and appointed employees must let us see what they are actually doing?


I don't think that.  The 4th amendment says that.  You must get a warrant based on probable cause.  There is nothing in the Constitution that says you can go on a fishing expedition and start subpoenaing private information without a warrant and there isn't a politician exception to the 4th.

This is why LBM takes you apart and he can't take me apart.  I stick to the Constitution and am consistent.  You say wow, you'd like to see that and toss the Constitution out the window because you want it

Jeff wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 5:24pm:
Most of them seem to get rich doing it... Shouldn't the people who provide the money see where it's going?

Shouldn't we see, so we can watch for profiteers sucking hard on the productive taxpayers tit and making deals with cronies?


Absolutely.  Amend the Constitution and be specific about what rights you want politicians to waive.  I already agreed to that.  What I don't agree with is that the Trump rules waive his Constitutional rights.

What about that didn't you understand?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 50754
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: ¡Ocasio!
Reply #305 - Nov 5th, 2019 at 6:13pm
Print Post  
kaz wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 5:41pm:
I don't think that.  The 4th amendment says that.  You must get a warrant based on probable cause. 
If our elected and appointed officials think the Constitution was created and ratified in order to give them something to hide behind, they probably have an entirely wrong idea about the Constitution.

That seems very common these days.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 9240
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: ¡Ocasio!
Reply #306 - Nov 5th, 2019 at 7:22pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Nov 5th, 2019 at 6:13pm:
If our elected and appointed officials think the Constitution was created and ratified in order to give them something to hide behind, they probably have an entirely wrong idea about the Constitution.

That seems very common these days.


So the Constitution is just a document we hide behind.  Got it.

So your view is as you have been clearly stating that our Constitutional rights don't matter because only criminals don't want government to ignore their rights, the rest of us are fine with it since we have nothing to hide.

In what possible sense are you any sort of libertarian?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 29 30 [31] 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › ¡Ocasio!
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy