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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer (Read 449 times)
Jeff
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #10 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:47am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 11:10am:
This is why I specify that they have a skin condition that causes them to break out in stigmata when harmed emotionally.

Yes, some humans are so emotionally fragile that even well meant criticism causes them severe stress.

Most children get over this sort of thing by learning, which they do by being exposed to other children who are oftentimes rude and unfeeling, being children and all.

The few who don't learn that "names will never hurt me" have problems integrating into the larger society. Some deal with it by isolating themselves. Others probably retreat into sociopathy...

We talked about this before in some other context? Protecting growing humans from challenges stunts their development and ends up making it impossible for them to learn to respond to challenges.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #11 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:50am
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 11th, 2019 at 10:26pm:
Actually he has no choice but to believe I'm an alien if he wants to continue to exist.

He said I was a fake Vulcan.

What did you expect after you convinced me you were a real dragon?

I can't remember you ever saying that you are human... Are you human?
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #12 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 11:43am
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Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:47am:
Yes, some humans are so emotionally fragile that even well meant criticism causes them severe stress.


If it wasn't just emotional, but physical stress they suffered, what do you imagine would happen? What policies would come to be? Would they be right? Why or why not?

Kind of interesting you mentioned the Vulcan thing. One of the main reasons I wish you'd go along with me as if this was true is because the moral quandaries are the whole point of sci-fi (which is why I like it). I don't want a philosophy that happens to work for the conditions that happen to exist; I want one that easily answers sci-fi-type what-ifs, even if they are new.

Peace had to come to Vulcan as an all-or-nothing deal, because we are telepathic. This means that you can't have some Vulcans running around still emotional. They will ruin everybody else's control. Not only that, but you can't have some peaceful people and some violent people living together on the same planet, because the violent ones will just kill the peaceful ones. Most people wanted a better world, and it's not perfect, but it is better. Some people didn't want to suffer through the training, and they were basically kicked off the planet. Is that right?

It certainly had good results. Still, I'm leaning towards no.

I don't think you can justify immoral acts with good results. I think killing Hitler in his crib is exactly as wrong as killing any other baby in its crib.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Little Big Man
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #13 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:17pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 11:20pm:
Obviously people have the right to speak freely, and saying someone's speech hurts you is no grounds to take that away.

But just as a hypothetical, what if SJWs actually started breaking out in stigmata when offended?

Assuming this did happen, how would the NAP apply?



Interesting hypothetical.  Suppose an African-American family is eating at a sidewalk cafe.  Some "Southern Gentlemen" approach the cafe and upon seeing the family begin complaining to each other in loud tones about, "Why do we always have to eat with N!66#r$?"

They are not physically harming the dad, mom and the two kiddos, but they are certainly interfering with their enjoyment of their meal which is their property.

That seems pretty aggressive to me.  Even more so if the goal of these unknown southern gentlemen is to convince the family to leave to the gentlemen can enjoy a N!66#r free lunch.

Keep in mind that the NAP is the non-aggression principle, not the non-physical aggression principle. Threats are aggression, blackmail is aggression, fraud is considered by many to be aggression but I haven't come to a conclusion on that.

Not making an argument, here.  It's something I'm pondering.   
  

Snarky no more!
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The Opposition
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #14 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:23pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
a N!66#r free lunch


Oh dear Reason, you should have used a hyphen! Have Mrs. Sack put you in the doghouse. Ask her for some hyphens. (Females have all the hyphens.) Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

This is as bad as Dissident trying to be racist, but neglecting the hyphen, and coming up with gun control.

http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1466171776/0

The thread title is "Gun Grabbing Jews" but it ought to have been "Gun-Grabbing Jews"!!! Can't you see the difference?!

Cry Cry Cry

The Opposition wrote on Jun 17th, 2016 at 11:31am:
This thread disappoints. I expected to see an AK47 up on charges for molesting Sarah Silverman and Amy Winehouse.

And I'd be like, "Who does that boy thank he is, touchin' our wimminz butts?"

And you'd be like, "Them 'gun rights' sure has made them guns uppity."

And I'd be like, "Shucks. That ain't no thang no more."

And then we'd get together a posse and we'd lynch 'im.


THE HYPHENS, MAN! THEY ARE NECESSARY!!!

Without hyphens, non-racist things become racist and racist things become about the epidemic of sentient guns molesting Human women (which admittedly is troubling but it wasn't the intended topic of discussion, and furthermore only serves as fuel for the gun control fire).

Little Big Man wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
They are not physically harming the dad, mom and the two kiddos, but they are certainly interfering with their enjoyment of their meal which is their property.


Take note of the assumption in most cases that words cannot be aggression.

I actually think it's a necessary assumption, because once you turn the dial the other way, people absolutely will feign offence for power over others.

But what if there were some way to tell the vast ocean of liars from the one guy who actually was harmed? The whole breaking out in stigmata thing is extreme, but it's the point of the hypothetical.

Sorry for the grammar freak out.

*breathes into a paper bag*
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #15 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:30pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
...fraud is considered by many to be aggression but I haven't come to a conclusion on that.


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fraud

Lying in order to take someone's property doesn't sound like theft to you?

What if the blacks respond that merely seeing white-people and listening to their honkey-voices ruins their eating pleasure?

What if the blacks spoke first?

What if I feel threatened by tattoos and break out in hives when I see someone with tattoos?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #16 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:31pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:23pm:
(Females have all the hyphens.)
Sexist-pig!
  

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Jeff
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #17 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:35pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:23pm:
Take note of the assumption in most cases that words cannot be aggression.

I actually think it's a necessary assumption, because once you turn the dial the other way, people absolutely will feign offence for power over others.

But what if there were some way to tell the vast ocean of liars from the one guy who actually was harmed?
That's why we have courts, so you can take your claim of harm to one and have it evaluated on its merits.

I picture you walking up and addressing the jury, pointing over at me and saying "That's him, the vile creature who destroyed my life by calling me a limp-weenie". BTW, thanks for the heads-up on hyphens!
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #18 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:38pm
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Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:30pm:
Lying to take someone's property doesn't sound like theft to you, but name calling does?


The problem is with the word take. The victim of fraud gives his property willingly, in a willing transaction. There's no taking involved.

You can say it's aggression, but that requires the NAP to be amended specifically to disallow fraud.

And if so, and if fraud is now aggression, what can you do to self-defend against it? Can you steal back your property? When you open the box and find it's got dog shit in it, can you rush the guy who just "took" your money and beat him up to get it back?

Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:30pm:
What if the blacks respond that merely seeing white people and listening to their honkey voices ruins their eating pleasure?

What if the blacks spoke first?

What if I feel threatened by tattoos and break out in hives when I see someone with tattoos?


That's exactly the question. It's very much along the lines of "peace" coming to my planet, by which I mean everyone not willing to repress their emotions being evicted.

But the planet's whole society improved. That's all that matters, right? Good or bad results?

I mean, screw rights. We should just violate rights if it brings about good results, oughtn't we we?

*sips tea*

Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:31pm:
Sexist-pig!


Fun fact: It's the marriage system that's sexist.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #19 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:21pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:38pm:
The problem is with the word take. The victim of fraud gives his property willingly, in a willing transaction. There's no taking involved.

The taking happens when the fraudster doesn't come through and fulfill her end of the bargain.
  

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