Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer (Read 337 times)
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40153
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #20 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:25pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:38pm:
You can say it's aggression, but that requires the NAP to be amended specifically to disallow fraud.

You'll have to talk to whoever came up with the principle. Only the originator of the NAP can amend it. It's his principle.

Fraud is theft by means of deceit. Theft is aggression.

If you'd quit amending the meaning of aggression to edit out things you don't want to view as aggression, you'd realize that as a principle, the NAP is simple and clear.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9049
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #21 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:28pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:25pm:
Fraud is theft


Fraud is specifically not theft.

Aggression has been defined by those who discovered the NAP as force or fraud.

Fraud is not force, meaning fraud is not theft, because theft is force.

You still haven't answered my question about what you can do to self-defend against fraud. You open the box. It has dog shit in it. Can you beat up the guy who "took" your money to get it back?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40153
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #22 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:28pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:38pm:
That's exactly the question.
If you want to make it illegal to be rude or different, you're going to have to greatly expand the police state.

People with nose rings offend me. Make them stop or cover their faces in public!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Little Big Man
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5477
Location: Republic of Me
Joined: Sep 11th, 2017
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #23 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:31pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:23pm:
Oh dear Reason, you should have used a hyphen! Have Mrs. Sack put you in the doghouse. Ask her for some hyphens. (Females have all the hyphens.)


But didn't Mrs. Sack lose hers on our wedding night?

Quote:
Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

This is as bad as Dissident trying to be racist, but neglecting the hyphen, and coming up with gun control.

http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1466171776/0

The thread title is "Gun Grabbing Jews" but it ought to have been "Gun-Grabbing Jews"!!! Can't you see the difference?!

Cry Cry Cry


THE HYPHENS, MAN! THEY ARE NECESSARY!!!

Without hyphens, non-racist things become racist and racist things become about the epidemic of sentient guns molesting Human women (which admittedly is troubling but it wasn't the intended topic of discussion, and furthermore only serves as fuel for the gun control fire).


Take note of the assumption in most cases that words cannot be aggression.

I actually think it's a necessary assumption, because once you turn the dial the other way, people absolutely will feign offence for power over others.

But what if there were some way to tell the vast ocean of liars from the one guy who actually was harmed? The whole breaking out in stigmata thing is extreme, but it's the point of the hypothetical.


Quote:
Sorry for the grammar freak out.


No problem at all.  Kaz just an hour ago spanked me for my grammar on my thread about when he will storm off the forum again.  I'm waiting for him to explain how I erred.  Or is it, "how me erred?" 

Kaz?



  

Snarky no more!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9049
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #24 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:42pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:28pm:
If you want to make it illegal to be rude or different, you're going to have to greatly expand the police state.


Right, which is why allowing these things to be considered harm not only fails on the proving it level, it totally fails on Sack's Razor.

Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:28pm:
People with nose rings offend me. Make them stop or cover their faces in public!


No, they don't. You're just lying for power over others. That's why my initial hypothetical makes it easy to see who's actually been harmed.

No one is harmed by being called a weenie, once or twice. Actual harassment, though? Totally different animal.

Burnsy's example is much better. It's commonly accepted that people being rude can put others off their food.

Little Big Man wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
But didn't Mrs. Sack lose hers on our wedding night?


I've been accused of having Deadpool-esque humour.

But when I innuendo something sexual, I make it at least a triple entendre. I think this makes my sense of humour much more sophisticated.

When I start pulling out the septuple entendres and the ice skaters start crying because what I'm doing is far more elegant, you'll see that I'm truly funnier than God.

And he's an omnipotent Jew, so even I'm not sure how I pulled that one off.

Undecided

The demand for hyphens is so bad in some parts of the world where the grammar and literacy are extremely poor that when a female has to get married, she has to pay a surgeon to... uhm... give her back... what she started with.

The moral of this story is that hyphens are good!

Embarrassed
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40153
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #25 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 3:06pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:28pm:
Fraud is specifically not theft.

If I sell you a bag of crisps that clearly claims it contains 6oz. of crisps, and I only put 4oz. of crisps in the bag, I've stolen from you by means of fraud. I took more of your money than the product I delivered entitled me to take.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Online

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 9049
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #26 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 3:09pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
If I sell you a bag of crisps that clearly claims it contains 6oz. of crisps, and I only put 4oz. of crisps in the bag, I've stolen from you by means of fraud. I took more of your money than the product I delivered entitled me to take.


It's not such a clear issue as theft because I willingly gave my money for the bag.

Some people would just say, "Buyer beware."

And that if I find the bag wanting, I can simply not purchase that brand of crisps again.

I say the same as Burnsy. I do not know whether fraud is aggression or not. Some people say no, some people say yes.

It's not theft, however. Theft is its own thing, specifically qualified by involuntary taking. Some say that whatever and whyever I would put the money in someone else's hand doesn't matter, only that it was voluntary.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40153
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #27 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 3:27pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
Right, which is why allowing these things to be considered harm not only fails on the proving it level, it totally fails on Sack's Razor.

No one is harmed by being called a weenie, once or twice. Actual harassment, though? Totally different animal.
That's why we have courts. Common law courts have been deciding when rudeness rises to the level of harassment for a long time.

This is what you're talking about, right?

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/harassment
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40153
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #28 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 3:29pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
Burnsy's example is much better. It's commonly accepted that people being rude can put others off their food.


That's where the right of restaurant owners to throw out rude customers is very effective.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 40153
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Reply #29 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 3:30pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 3:09pm:
It's not such a clear issue as theft because I willingly gave my money for the bag.

You were willing to pay the asking price for 6oz. of potato chips. I defrauded you by only putting 4oz. of product in the bag.

Accidents happen. It might have only been a machine malfunction, but if I set my machines to put 4oz. of product in bags I label 6oz., I'm committing fraud, stealing from people by deceiving them.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Social Justice Warriors and "Harm" they Suffer
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy