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Snarky Sack
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Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism: Just an Idea I'm Tossing Out
Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:38pm
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I was decrying the fact that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is funded by money that is just printed by the fed to avoid what the CFPB calls, "political interference," which is known as "congressional oversight" to any other agency.

Then I thought, 'what if every agency were to be funded that way?'  It would still force because it is taking value of people's existing money and putting it into the new printed money,  a bizarre form of stealing that only government can practice.  Not a new idea, it was the main cause of the fall of the Roman Empire.  So what if we went back to allowing banks to issue notes and we took away the requirement that fiat money be accepted "for all debts?"  Nobody would be forced to use the printed money and if they do, they knowingly allow government to devalue it.

All the believers in government could work for the government for government currency, or work for others and accept the government currency as payment.  But they couldn't force non-believers to accept it in payment for anything.  People accept bitcoin as payment, and nobody is forced to.  I don't see why they wouldn't accept government currency absent force.  But if they don't, that's their choice.

Government would be fully funded with no force.  No taxes, just print the money.  State governments could print their own versions if they don't wan to use the U.S.   They can run as many social  welfare programs like free education as they want to print dollar bills for (or create virtual money, of course).  They could even generate their own crypto-currency, I guess.

Anyway, that's not Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism.  My new (as far as I know) idea uses one of the principles of Geo-libertarianism:

Quote:
Geolibertarians hold that geographical space and raw natural resources—any assets that qualify as land by economic definition—are rivalrous goods to be considered common property or more accurately unowned, which all individuals share an equal human right to access, not capital wealth to be privatized fully and absolutely.

Therefore, landholders must pay compensation according to the rental value decided by the free market, absent any improvements, to the community for the civil right of  . . . exclusive possession with restrictions on property abuse . . .  or otherwise (pay a) fee (for) simple title with no such restrictions.

Ideally, the taxing of a site would be administered only after it has been determined that the privately captured economic rent from the land exceeds the title-holder's equal share of total land value in the jurisdiction. On this proposal, rent is collected not for the mere occupancy or use of land as neither the community nor the state rightfully owns the commons, but rather as an objectively assessed indemnity due for the legal right to exclude others from that land.


So let those two ideas sink in:  Government paying for itself through printing non-fiat money or generating crypto-currency and geo-libertarianism.  Comment or question, if you like.  I'll explain the next part after we've had a chance to do that.

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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The Opposition
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Re: Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism: Just an Idea I'm Tossing Out
Reply #1 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:55pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:38pm:
Then I thought, 'what if every agency were to be funded that way?'


I once ran a D&D game where the Church did this. Because their printed money was backed by spells, people used the money voluntarily.

The Church, over time, grew rich. They paid for whatever they wanted with their printed notes, and if the clerics actually capable of casting the spells crossed the Church, the Church fired them.

All they had left were a couple of mind-magi, most of whom couldn't even cast divine spells at all, who would fuddle the minds of anyone coming in to change in a note for a spell, so they would believe the spell had been received, or that they never had the note to begin with.

The party had a marvelous time with that adventure.

Yes, this is only my personal take on voluntary money (and in a fantasy universe, at that), but I believe all money works well, until it doesn't, and when it inevitably collapses, it only falls on and crushes the people who invested in obtaining it, not the people who printed it.

The people who printed it can only benefit, unless they back 100% of their money, in which case they would be better off just selling the thing they're using to back it, rather than hold it. Ergo, the only money that gets printed is inherently bad money.

However, I think you have a good idea. When people realise their money is getting less and less valuable, they often have no viable recourse but to simply work harder and obtain more of it. I also don't think printing money is aggressive, or theft.

Shop signs popping up with "Bitcoins Only" are only likely to happen when a significant number of people are already using bitcoins, meaning that even though the shop owner is hurting himself by taking a rapidly-inflating currency, he'd be hurting himself more by only taking bitcoins.

So your system could work well.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism: Just an Idea I'm Tossing Out
Reply #2 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 2:35pm
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Having all land and natural resources be "common property" is a very bad idea and not new at all.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism: Just an Idea I'm Tossing Out
Reply #3 - Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:21pm
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Ok, so here's how the already written about concept of geo-libertarianism becomes geo-agrarian-libertarianism:

This would have to be done by a person wealthy enough to buy a large tract of land and to bribe to the government in whose territory it is to allow it to be also leased from them for 99 years with an option to renew.  Say one hundred miles by one hundred miles of largely farmable land.  That's 10,000 square miles which is 6,400,000 acres.  Partition it into tracts suitable for farming, suitable for manufacturing, etc.  Make sure that there is public access in between

The person who originally bought the land and leased it as territory is now the government.  As the government he or she can now lease tracts and/or charge fees for deeds to tracts and use the money to ensure that the granted possession of the land is honored.   As the government, he now has profit incentive to govern it wisely.

Anyone who leases the land, buys a deed or enters the territory looking for opportunities is by definition consenting to be governed.  No votes, so no vote buying, which means that if the government wants to use its revenue to "help people," its motives will be truly altruistic.  If the government makes a mess of things, people will leave and stop paying leases or buying deeds.

Here's where the money comes in:  The government can also farm the land, or even just require the lease on farmland be paid in produce.  The government can use the produce to back it's currency.  Tie the unit of currency to a bushel of a crop with stable worldwide market price stability that can be grown in the area.  Someone gets nervous about the currency they bring a truck and redeem it.   If people don't want to use that currency, they can trade in whatever they want.  But for leases, the government only accepts "wheaties" or whatever it calls its currency.



   
  

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Re: Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism: Just an Idea I'm Tossing Out
Reply #4 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 9:08pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 9:21pm:
Ok, so here's how the already written about concept of geo-libertarianism becomes geo-agrarian-libertarianism:

This would have to be done by a person wealthy enough to buy a large tract of land and to bribe to the government in whose territory it is to allow it to be also leased from them for 99 years with an option to renew.  Say one hundred miles by one hundred miles of largely farmable land.  That's 10,000 square miles which is 6,400,000 acres.  Partition it into tracts suitable for farming, suitable for manufacturing, etc.  Make sure that there is public access in between

The person who originally bought the land and leased it as territory is now the government.  As the government he or she can now lease tracts and/or charge fees for deeds to tracts and use the money to ensure that the granted possession of the land is honored.   As the government, he now has profit incentive to govern it wisely.

Anyone who leases the land, buys a deed or enters the territory looking for opportunities is by definition consenting to be governed.  No votes, so no vote buying, which means that if the government wants to use its revenue to "help people," its motives will be truly altruistic.  If the government makes a mess of things, people will leave and stop paying leases or buying deeds.

Here's where the money comes in:  The government can also farm the land, or even just require the lease on farmland be paid in produce.  The government can use the produce to back it's currency.  Tie the unit of currency to a bushel of a crop with stable worldwide market price stability that can be grown in the area.  Someone gets nervous about the currency they bring a truck and redeem it.   If people don't want to use that currency, they can trade in whatever they want.  But for leases, the government only accepts "wheaties" or whatever it calls its currency.



   

Ok, so here's how the already written about concept of geo-libertarianism becomes geo-agrarian-libertarianism:

This would have to be done by a person wealthy enough to buy a large tract of land and to bribe to the government in whose territory it is to allow it to be also leased from them for 99 years with an option to renew.  Say one hundred miles by one hundred miles of largely farmable land.  That's 10,000 square miles which is 6,400,000 acres.  Partition it into tracts suitable for farming, suitable for manufacturing, etc.  Make sure that there is public access in between

The person who originally bought the land and leased it as territory is now the government.  As the government he or she can now lease tracts and/or charge fees for deeds to tracts and use the money to ensure that the granted possession of the land is honored.   As the government, he now has profit incentive to govern it wisely.

Anyone who leases the land, buys a deed or enters the territory looking for opportunities is by definition consenting to be governed.  No votes, so no vote buying, which means that if the government wants to use its revenue to "help people," its motives will be truly altruistic.  If the government makes a mess of things, people will leave and stop paying leases or buying deeds.

Here's where the money comes in:  The government can also farm the land, or even just require the lease on farmland be paid in produce.  The government can use the produce to back it's currency.  Tie the unit of currency to a bushel of a crop with stable worldwide market price stability that can be grown in the area.  Someone gets nervous about the currency they bring a truck and redeem it.   If people don't want to use that currency, they can trade in whatever they want.  But for leases, the government only accepts "wheaties" or whatever it calls its currency.


  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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kaz
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Re: Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism: Just an Idea I'm Tossing Out
Reply #5 - Jan 14th, 2019 at 9:08pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jan 12th, 2019 at 1:38pm:
I was decrying the fact that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is funded by money that is just printed by the fed to avoid what the CFPB calls, "political interference," which is known as "congressional oversight" to any other agency.

Then I thought, 'what if every agency were to be funded that way?'  It would still force because it is taking value of people's existing money and putting it into the new printed money,  a bizarre form of stealing that only government can practice.  Not a new idea, it was the main cause of the fall of the Roman Empire.  So what if we went back to allowing banks to issue notes and we took away the requirement that fiat money be accepted "for all debts?"  Nobody would be forced to use the printed money and if they do, they knowingly allow government to devalue it.

All the believers in government could work for the government for government currency, or work for others and accept the government currency as payment.  But they couldn't force non-believers to accept it in payment for anything.  People accept bitcoin as payment, and nobody is forced to.  I don't see why they wouldn't accept government currency absent force.  But if they don't, that's their choice.

Government would be fully funded with no force.  No taxes, just print the money.  State governments could print their own versions if they don't wan to use the U.S.   They can run as many social  welfare programs like free education as they want to print dollar bills for (or create virtual money, of course).  They could even generate their own crypto-currency, I guess.

Anyway, that's not Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism.  My new (as far as I know) idea uses one of the principles of Geo-libertarianism:


So let those two ideas sink in:  Government paying for itself through printing non-fiat money or generating crypto-currency and geo-libertarianism.  Comment or question, if you like.  I'll explain the next part after we've had a chance to do that.


I was decrying the fact that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is funded by money that is just printed by the fed to avoid what the CFPB calls, "political interference," which is known as "congressional oversight" to any other agency.

Then I thought, 'what if every agency were to be funded that way?'  It would still force because it is taking value of people's existing money and putting it into the new printed money,  a bizarre form of stealing that only government can practice.  Not a new idea, it was the main cause of the fall of the Roman Empire.  So what if we went back to allowing banks to issue notes and we took away the requirement that fiat money be accepted "for all debts?"  Nobody would be forced to use the printed money and if they do, they knowingly allow government to devalue it.

All the believers in government could work for the government for government currency, or work for others and accept the government currency as payment.  But they couldn't force non-believers to accept it in payment for anything.  People accept bitcoin as payment, and nobody is forced to.  I don't see why they wouldn't accept government currency absent force.  But if they don't, that's their choice.

Government would be fully funded with no force.  No taxes, just print the money.  State governments could print their own versions if they don't wan to use the U.S.   They can run as many social  welfare programs like free education as they want to print dollar bills for (or create virtual money, of course).  They could even generate their own crypto-currency, I guess.

Anyway, that's not Geo-Agrarian-Libertarianism.  My new (as far as I know) idea uses one of the principles of Geo-libertarianism:


So let those two ideas sink in:  Government paying for itself through printing non-fiat money or generating crypto-currency and geo-libertarianism.  Comment or question, if you like.  I'll explain the next part after we've had a chance to do that.
  

Greg Gutfeld - I became a conservative by being around liberals and I became a libertarian by being around conservatives

Matt Stone - I hate conservatives, but I really f'ing hate liberals
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