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Poll closed Question: Should I Continue with the LBM Persona, or Back to Sack?
bars   pie
*** This poll has now closed ***


Your new persona a breath of fresh air.    
  3 (75.0%)
crappity smack that! Bring back the Sack!    
  1 (25.0%)




Total votes: 4
« Last Modified by: Little Big Man on: Jan 31st, 2019 at 9:10am »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Take the Poll. Nice me or Jerk Me? (Read 1486 times)
Jeff
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Re: Take the Poll. Nice me or Jerk Me?
Reply #60 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 9:51am
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 9:30am:
It isn't about my imagination of what slavers would do.  I know that my refusal to consent to a government that protects slavery, like the one ordained and established by "we the people," wouldn't stop slavery.   That would defeat the purpose.  Such a government is clearly formed to protect the interests of slavers, not abolitionists. 

I wouldn't consent anyway, for the sake of my own moral code.

If that makes me an idiot, so be it.  I guess the people that gleefully voted to protect slavery, and make slaves three fifths persons were the geniuses of the time?
I don't know what exactly makes you an idiot, but claiming that everyone that voted to ratify the Constitution was "gleeful" about the provisions regarding slavery that were in the Constitution makes you sound like an idiot, and an ignorant idiot at that.

Here's a question for you: Does anarchy require consent? Must everyone agree to live without government before anarchy would be legitimized?
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Take the Poll. Nice me or Jerk Me?
Reply #61 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 10:20am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 9:51am:
I don't know what exactly makes you an idiot, but claiming that everyone that voted to ratify the Constitution was "gleeful" about the provisions regarding slavery that were in the Constitution makes you sound like an idiot, and an ignorant idiot at that.


Then I'm glad that I didn't say that everyone was gleeful.  Most were gleeful, I guess.  The others knew fully well what they were doing and did it anyway.

Quote:
Here's a question for you: Does anarchy require consent? Must everyone agree to live without government before anarchy would be legitimized?


Interesting question.  I haven't really read up on anarchy, since I have never advocated for it.  What do you think?

I guess in any tribal group of hunter gatherers who only follow the tribal leader when they agree with him and break off into a separate band when they don't, there might be one or two who say, "you know what we need?  Someone to control our actions, take our money and redistribute it so that we can be safe."  "Yeah, I think so too.  But what's money?"

Is that what you have in mind?

  

Snarky no more!
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The Opposition
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Re: Take the Poll. Nice me or Jerk Me?
Reply #62 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 11:23am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 9:51am:
Here's a question for you: Does anarchy require consent? Must everyone agree to live without government before anarchy would be legitimized?


No, because you don't have to consent to a state of nature. You must consent to deviations therefrom which would violate rights.

However, there is some question as to whether dissolving the government would be murder, because most people are dependent on it to protect their lives.

Let's say you build an omni-bot to help you with various tasks, and you haven't used it for a while. You go into your garage and find someone hooked up to your omni-bot for life support. He rushed into your garage after some of his vital organs had been removed.

This fellow has no right to use your property without your permission. He's stealing.

But can you pull the plug?

This, also, is an interesting question.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Take the Poll. Nice me or Jerk Me?
Reply #63 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:01pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 11:23am:
No, because you don't have to consent to a state of nature.
Anarchy might be a state of nature, but the most normal state for humans is to be in mutually protective cooperative groups, whether it be family groups or tribes or clans or city states or nations, and even families generally have rules, i.e. they are not anarchic.

In the case of a nation living under a rule of law, wouldn't it require the consent of all to agree to abandon the rule of law and live anarchically?

I know we disagree on the basics, where you think the normal state of human beings is the same as cannibalistic predators, and I think the natural state of human beings is cooperation among individuals and groups... Probably we are both at least partially wrong, but I won't grant you the freedom to define the default state of humans as anarchy. Humans don't really have a default state, and they don't seem to choose anarchy.

  

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Jeff
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Re: Take the Poll. Nice me or Jerk Me?
Reply #64 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:07pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 11:23am:
Let's say you build an omni-bot to help you with various tasks, and you haven't used it for a while. You go into your garage and find someone hooked up to your omni-bot for life support. He rushed into your garage after some of his vital organs had been removed.

This fellow has no right to use your property without your permission. He's stealing.

But can you pull the plug?

This, also, is an interesting question.
The punishment must be relatively proportionate to the crime. Was it a theft that justified you killing him? Maybe. If you were going to die unless you got immediately into your omni-bot, you could pull the pug on him and save your own life.

If his theft, his unauthorized use of your property, amounted to a few dollars worth of electricity and nothing else, he'll probably be glad to pay you back when he is restored, and if you kill him for a few dollars worth of electricity, you'l probably be charged with manslaughter at least.
  

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