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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers (Read 998 times)
Little Big Man
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #10 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:03pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 4:46pm:
Just FYI, you know Ghirardelli is a California company, right?  It's in downtown San Francisco ...  I've been there.  I'm not a big chocolate person, but wow, it smells amazing inside


I did not know that.  Thanks!

How stupid government is to poke at a bear like that.  I’m sure that factory is a medium size employer at least and a significant source of tax revenue.

I hope they enjoy “their” 750K.


  

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SkyChief
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #11 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:04pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 4:47pm:
As for me, as long as their labeling is accurate I'm good.  If they say 2 oz of chocolate, it's not on them to explain what a standard weight and measure is

I would say let free market take care of it.

If they misrepresent their product, people won't buy it.   That's how they need to be taught a lesson in honest representation/advertisement.

The government is always a bad nanny.
  
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kaz
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #12 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:07pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:04pm:
I would say let free market take care of it.

If they misrepresent their product, people won't buy it.   That's how they need to be taught a lesson.

The government is always a bad nanny.


Telling them how to package their product is being a nanny.  Calling that they label things like product weight accurately using an unambiguous measure being a "nanny" is silly.

OMG, chief's milk gave him the volume he purchased, OMG, can he do anything oh his own?

Yeah ...
  

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The Opposition
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #13 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 9:57pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 12:12pm:
Misleading package info is fraud.   

Fraud is aggression  (according to some members of this forum).

It's Government's job to punish aggression (according to some members of this forum).

Ghirardelli got what they deserved. (according to some members of this forum)


I would rather say fraud isn't aggression than say that the fine was right.

They did deceive. They wouldn't use the misleading packaging unless they benefited by it, and they wouldn't benefit by it unless people were actually misled.

So what? I don't even favour forcing companies to label how many ounces there are.

I'm ambivalent about lying about the number of ounces, though. If they do, let civil law handle it. It shouldn't be a crime.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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SkyChief
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #14 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 10:13pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 9:57pm:
I'm ambivalent about lying about the number of ounces, though. If they do, let civil law handle it. It shouldn't be a crime.

How 'bout we let the free market handle it?

Civil Law can get a bit complicated sometimes!
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #15 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 10:18pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 5:07pm:
Telling them how to package their product is being a nanny.  Calling that they label things like product weight accurately using an unambiguous measure being a "nanny" is silly.

OMG, chief's milk gave him the volume he purchased, OMG, can he do anything oh his own?



Sure, there is.  He can buy another brand of milk. 

How much tolerance are we talking here before it crosses the line into criminal fraud?  If a consumer finds out that his half gallon of Milky Maid Milk is actually only 63 ounces, he should be able to call the feds for an investigation?  How many tax dollars should be spent on that investigation and prosecution?

A for profit consumer researcher would be glad to hear that information and he could do a story that would make money while exposing Milky Maid for the short milkers that they are. 

 
  

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The Opposition
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #16 - Feb 5th, 2019 at 10:21pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 10:13pm:
How 'bout we let the free market handle it?

Civil Law can get a bit complicated sometimes!


Civil law is basically free market profiteering anyway.

Somebody caused you some nebulous "damage"? Looked at you crossways? Said something nasty? Civil law will put it right.



I used to be against civil law entirely on the basis that people ought to have a right to know whether some act is going to be punished before they do it.

Now I support civil law. It's free market justice.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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kaz
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #17 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 6:41am
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 10:18pm:
Sure, there is.  He can buy another brand of milk. 

How much tolerance are we talking here before it crosses the line into criminal fraud?  If a consumer finds out that his half gallon of Milky Maid Milk is actually only 63 ounces, he should be able to call the feds for an investigation?  How many tax dollars should be spent on that investigation and prosecution?

A for profit consumer researcher would be glad to hear that information and he could do a story that would make money while exposing Milky Maid for the short milkers that they are. 

 



He's once, twice, three times a troll ...
  

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kaz
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #18 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 6:46am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 10:21pm:
Civil law is basically free market profiteering anyway.

...

Now I support civil law. It's free market justice.


Your schizophrenia aside, civil law is amazing for capitalism.  People don't realize how much you can hold big companies accountable by suing them in civil court for screwing you.  The cost to them to fight it is many times for corporate lawyers what it takes just to pay you.

In my graphic design business, an out of area large business tried to screw me.  They ordered $800 in graphic designs and ignored the invoices completely.  I took them to civil court.  Took me about 2 hours work to file a small claims court case.  I was paid for both the work and my filing fees without more adieu.  Then since I knew the process, my customer service trying to collect deadbeat invoices successfully told non-payers we would just take them to small claims court, and it worked.
  

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Jeff
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Re: California Fines ghirardelli chocolate makers
Reply #19 - Feb 6th, 2019 at 7:16am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 5th, 2019 at 9:57pm:
I would rather say fraud isn't aggression...
Right. Of course you would. You've said it many times. You're still wrong. Fraud is a clever way to steal from people. Stealing is aggression.
  

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