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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Mousetraps Work because . . . (Read 1686 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Mousetraps Work because . . .
Reply #100 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 11:35am
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kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:27am:
I never said it doesn't.  More fake news


You said insurance was highly competitive. I just showed you how prices soar when they're force-fed customers.

In highly competitive industries, undercutting will lower prices.

Since that doesn't happen, and prices soar when customers are forced to buy, and there are the same four or five big choices wherever you go, I wouldn't say highly competitive describes the insurance industry very well at all.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:27am:
They're not government roads?  Of course they are, stop being a moron.  And that they are paid for by taxes is how they ARE government roads, dweeb.  Not how they aren't.  So by your standard, nothing is government since all government is paid with taxes.  You stepped on your tongue that time.


It depends on whether you believe products paid for by taxes should serve those who paid for them, or should best serve the big companies. If you believe government is a legitimate private property owner rather than a custodian, no one has any legitimate objection to anything they do.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:27am:
And the people who pay for the roads through taxes overwhelmingly want your ass insured.  They'd want it even more if they read your posts and know how unbalanced you are


I dispute that. I think good drivers know they're being freeloaded on and would overwhelmingly choose not to have to buy insurance.

Bad drivers would overwhelmingly choose a government supported system that forces good drivers to pay for the accidents they constantly cause, and can't possibly pay for themselves.

Put it to a vote. Let it be state-by-state. If they all vote for mandatory insurance, fine. They're paying for the roads just the same as I am.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:27am:
In the first case, it's a requirement to drive on government roads.  You're not required to drive on government roads.  If you go to a national park, you have to pay the entrance fee.  If government collects your trash, you have to follow their disposal rules.  Even libertarians can live in a society


Saying you have to follow reasonable rules like putting your garbage in the right can is a whole different animal than saying you have to pay again, for something you already paid for, so the insurance companies can make a bigger profit.

Forcing me to have a liability for a risk that never eventuates is theft. If I never cause an accident, I'm being forced to pay for the accidents of others at gunpoint. Yes, to drive on government roads, but that's not something normal people can do without.

It would be the same as only taxing people for welfare if they breathe government air, drive on government roads, or use the sidewalks. No one is "forcing" you to pay for it lololololo.

Jeff wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 6:40am:
This seems to contradict your claim:

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-motorcycle-insurance.html

From the article:

Penalties for Not Having Insurance

Motorcycle owners who cannot provide proof of insurance may have to deal with penalties, such as suspension of driver’s licenses, motorcycle registration, and motorcycle license plates, as well as fees to regain driving privileges.


https://www.valuepenguin.com/do-you-need-motorcycle-insurance
Quote:
The majority of states in the U.S. require riders to have a motorcycle insurance policy. Two states – Florida, Washington – do not require it, although there are some exceptions in Florida. If you live in a state that does not require motorcycle insurance, you should still purchase a policy. Motorcycle insurance protects owners from incurring major costs that could be financially devastating.


Not in Florida or Washington.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Mousetraps Work because . . .
Reply #101 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:23pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 11:35am:
You said insurance was highly competitive. I just showed you how prices soar when they're force-fed customers.

In highly competitive industries, undercutting will lower prices.


Back from your fantasy world, the top 5 insurance companies have just over 50% of the market.  The next five are about 17%.  So your premise there isn't competition is just more of your fake news.

Also, this doesn't man up to your lie that I said mandating insurance drives down prices.  Never said that, liar

The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 11:35am:
Since that doesn't happen, and prices soar when customers are forced to buy, and there are the same four or five big choices wherever you go, I wouldn't say highly competitive describes the insurance industry very well at all


The effect of you getting caught in your crap is the downside of making up your shit as you go.  See above


The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 11:35am:
It depends on whether you believe products paid for by taxes should serve those who paid for them, or should best serve the big companies. If you believe government is a legitimate private property owner rather than a custodian, no one has any legitimate objection to anything they do


No one supports insurance to give money to big companies, Mr. Marx.  Now you're swallowing Democrat Party propaganda.

We support insurance to support ourselves from whack jobs like you who want to drive and put the dime on us for your doing it.  We want you to be insured


The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 11:35am:
I dispute that. I think good drivers know they're being freeloaded on and would overwhelmingly choose not to have to buy insurance.


Deeper into your Marxist dogma.  If we have your way, we (responsible people with money) will have to buy insurance that covers us from you.  Our prices will skyrocket and like everything else in this country all the cost will be stuck on us.

You'd know that if you weren't poor and a loser.  We are the ones who willingly buy insurance.  We have assets and will protect them.  Showing again your claims of intelligence and education are as full of bull as everything else you say

Bad drivers would overwhelmingly choose a government supported system that forces good drivers to pay for the accidents they constantly cause, and can't possibly pay for yourselves.  When you live paycheck to paycheck, you aren't going to buy insurance.  Why would you?

The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 11:35am:
Put it to a vote. Let it be state-by-state. If they all vote for mandatory insurance, fine. They're paying for the roads just the same as I am


Since you're making the claim that people don't support mandatory insurance, the onus is on you.  Show some of the people who are out there now opposing mandatory car insurance.  Note mandatory just means ... if you want to drive on government roads ...


The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 11:35am:
Saying you have to follow reasonable rules like putting your garbage in the right can is a whole different animal than saying you have to pay again, for something you already paid for, so the insurance companies can make a bigger profit


More Communist propaganda, Karl.  And you just threw the argument.  You said "reasonable," which is subjective.  People think you buying your insurance is reasonable.  There is just no opposition to it, other than opposition LOL
  

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Re: Mousetraps Work because . . .
Reply #102 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:49pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:23pm:
Back from your fantasy world, the top 5 insurance companies have just over 50% of the market.  The next five are about 17%.  So your premise there isn't competition is just more of your fake news.

Also, this doesn't man up to your lie that I said mandating insurance drives down prices.  Never said that, liar


More of your righteous indignation over whatever you can claim is a misquote. You said they were highly competitive and if that was anything close to true, undercutting would happen, bringing prices closer to what they are where they aren't being force-fed customers.

Yes, it was primarily GEMorton who was saying this in the other thread, but you still said they were highly competitive.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:23pm:
No one supports insurance to give money to big companies, Mr. Marx.  Now you're swallowing Democrat Party propaganda.


Yet that's exactly the result. Insurance companies get a free ride, because it's perfectly moral to force people to buy it, but completely wrong to regulate prices down to what they would be if the purchases weren't forced.

Where are your moral exceptions for price regulation? Just regulate the prices on government roads. Let the insurance companies charge whatever they want to insure customers on private roads.

If a policy does X, especially if it does X better than it does anything else, it's perfectly reasonable to say it was designed to do X.

Does it protect people from loss? Nope. The bad drivers just go uninsured. Does it increase the insurance company's profits? Hmm, looks like it well over doubles them.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:23pm:
We support insurance to support ourselves from whack jobs like you who want to drive and put the dime on us for your doing it.  We want you to be insured


And I want the guy who hits me to be insured, but he's not. And he's not going to be punished for it, either. I'm not protected from risks others impose, but I should still pay to protect others from me. Double standard.

You have to make up a bunch of false crap about me because the reality is that the responsible pay for the irresponsible, and insurance is basically welfare for bad drivers, paid for by me, the one who's never caused an accident and probably never will.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: Mousetraps Work because . . .
Reply #103 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 1:15pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:49pm:
More of your righteous indignation over whatever you can claim is a misquote. You said they were highly competitive and if that was anything close to true, undercutting would happen, bringing prices closer to what they are where they aren't being force-fed customers.

Yes, it was primarily GEMorton who was saying this in the other thread, but you still said they were highly competitive.


You made what I said to be an assertive and specific comment that I said mandatory insurance brings prices down.  That is a complete fabrication.  You're just trying to spin your way out of that you lied.  And yes, this is why I keep saying you idiots misquote me.  You keep misquoting me.  And you're dickless that you can't just admit that no, I didn't say that.  You made it up.

And insurance is really cheap for good drivers, so I don't know what you're talking about with price cutting.  It happens all the time. 

Also, I already showed you your claim there are "the same 4 or 5 companies in every market" is a complete fabrication.  The top 5 are 54% of the market.  The next 5 are 17%.  What you said was pulled out of your ass like everything else you say


The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:49pm:
Yet that's exactly the result. Insurance companies get a free ride, because it's perfectly moral to force people to buy it, but completely wrong to regulate prices down to what they would be if the purchases weren't forced


And that doesn't support your lie when you said that is why we want it.  You're making up your shit as you go again

The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:49pm:
Where are your moral exceptions for price regulation? Just regulate the prices on government roads. Let the insurance companies charge whatever they want to insure customers on private roads


No idea what that means

The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:49pm:
If a policy does X, especially if it does X better than it does anything else, it's perfectly reasonable to say it was designed to do X.

Does it protect people from loss? Nope. The bad drivers just go uninsured. Does it increase the insurance company's profits? Hmm, looks like it well over doubles them.


And I want the guy who hits me to be insured, but he's not. And he's not going to be punished for it, either. I'm not protected from risks others impose, but I should still pay to protect others from me. Double standard.

All this shit you made up is belied by the data.  Uninsured motorist is a small part of insurance.  So it's mostly insured people who cause accidents.  Sorry to let reality rain on your parade

The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 12:49pm:
You have to make up a bunch of false crap about me because the reality is that the responsible pay for the irresponsible, and insurance is basically welfare for bad drivers, paid for by me, the one who's never caused an accident and probably never will.


I haven't made up anything about you.  The facts are that if you have money, you buy insurance.  If you don't have money, you don't buy insurance.  So only people with money will buy insurance.  And we will pay for the uninsured because people without money who hit us will never buy insurance when now most of the time they do.

If you have any money, you would never be claiming that you'd pay less for insurance or that you would be uninsured.  You'd never take that chance.  That you don't even know that means you have nothing.  Protecting assets doesn't even occur to you
  

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Re: Mousetraps Work because . . .
Reply #104 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:30pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
You made what I said to be an assertive and specific comment that I said mandatory insurance brings prices down.


You said it was highly competitive. It's not. You literally made up half a page of lies about me and you complain about a supposed misquote, while still implying that mandatory insurance doesn't significantly raise prices.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
And insurance is really cheap for good drivers,


kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
Also, I already showed you your claim there are "the same 4 or 5 companies in every market" is a complete fabrication.  The top 5 are 54% of the market.  The next 5 are 17%.  What you said was pulled out of your ass like everything else you say


I want to know who these back-alley insurance companies are. I only hear about the same four or five big ones.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
And that doesn't support your lie when you said that is why we want it.  You're making up your shit as you go again


I'm not making up a thing. I demonstrated that having insurance mandatory raises prices. That's a free ride for the insurance companies.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
All this shit you made up is belied by the data.  Uninsured motorist is a small part of insurance.  So it's mostly insured people who cause accidents.  Sorry to let reality rain on your parade


I don't care how big or small a part it is. If they get to impose their risks on me and not pay, I shouldn't have to pay either.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
I haven't made up anything about you.


You made up an entire half a page of lies about me being poor and uneducated.

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 1:15pm:
If you have any money, you would never be claiming that you'd pay less for insurance or that you would be uninsured.  You'd never take that chance.  That you don't even know that means you have nothing.  Protecting assets doesn't even occur to you


I already told you what I'd do. I'd deposit the minimum liability in an account to pay for it if something happens.

...Exactly the same as I do for my health. I guess people with HSAs (Health Savings Accounts) are all poor stupid people who can't afford insurance. No chance they know insurance is a scam or anything. No chance HSAs are cheaper because you get to cut out the middle man and his huge profits completely.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: Mousetraps Work because . . .
Reply #105 - Feb 19th, 2019 at 6:41am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:30pm:
You made up an entire half a page of lies about me being poor and uneducated


I didn't say you're poor and uneducated.  You did.  You said you would not buy insurance.  If you had any money, you would buy insurance.  It's a litigus society.

And ...

The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:30pm:
I already told you what I'd do. I'd deposit the minimum liability in an account to pay for it if something happens


... you repeated that here.  Minimum liability?  I'm just laughing at you.  Minimum liabililty is like $15K.  I have $300K then an umbrella policy for $2M.  That's what people with assets to protect have to do.  Minimum liability?  You're poor and uneducated.  You don't have shit.  You don't know anything about insurance because you have nothing to protect

The Opposition wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:30pm:
...Exactly the same as I do for my health. I guess people with HSAs (Health Savings Accounts) are all poor stupid people who can't afford insurance. No chance they know insurance is a scam or anything. No chance HSAs are cheaper because you get to cut out the middle man and his huge profits completely.


Again, you know nothing about insurance.  HSAs are nothing like that.  HSAs are a high deductible policy.  So you think these are the same.

auto:  $15K in a bank account, then anything more comes out of your pocket with no limit.

health:  $5K deductible, then they pay the rest

Those are nothing alike.  Have you ever had insurance before other than auto that you were forced to buy?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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