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Jeff
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #10 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:41am
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:39am:
If you don't mind, Jeff, I'm going to defer answering that one until I find out whether the people consent to letting me be snarky again.
I liked your previous way of being snarky better than your current way of being snarky.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #11 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:43am
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:08am:
I phrased that badly.  I meant that presidents after H.W. were chickenhawks, not that H.W. was.  H.W. got us into undeclared wars we had no business in.  But as a young man, he stepped up to the plate so you can't fault his courage
I don't see what that has to do with what I thought you were talking about.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #12 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:46am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:38am:
Some are, some aren't, but if college is "free" and you can have a lot of fun, lot's of young people are attracted.


That is exactly right.  College has turned into nothing more than an absurd extension of our absurd government primary and secondary schools.  It's welfare for those Ocasio-Cortez calls, "unable or unwilling to work." 

If the taxpayers are going to be soaked for young adults to avoid the real world, a better investment would be some kind of work projects corps so at least we can have litter picked up and maybe the young can learn some kind of marketable skills.  They can still live in co-ed dorms, smoke mary-wanna and explore their sexuality.  Just after they put in a day's work.

Hell, just being able to properly respond to an alarm clock is a marketable skill these days.


  

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #13 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:50am
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:46am:
...a better investment would be some kind of work projects corps so at least we can have litter picked up and maybe the young can learn some kind of marketable skills.
Let's just wait until they are convicted of some violent crime and imprisoned, and then make them pick up litter. Smiley
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #14 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:50am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:43am:
I don't see what that has to do with what I thought you were talking about.


Not much.  Doesn't really matter whether a president who sends troops into an undeclared war is a combat veteran or not.  One would think a person who has seen war would want to avoid it, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 
  

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #15 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 9:29am
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:50am:
Not much.  Doesn't really matter whether a president who sends troops into an undeclared war is a combat veteran or not.  One would think a person who has seen war would want to avoid it, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 
You could say that George Washington saw the usefulness of war, so he sought to be sure that the U.S. would be able to defend itself.

No doubt H.W. believed that WWII had saved the world from a horrible fate.

There is a terrible temptation for anyone involved in government, which is to see that something like the Revolutionary War had a very good result, therefore other wars (all wars?) will have good results, or to look at the creation of post roads and see that they had helped unite the new nation and that people loved it when a road came through where they lived, so the government could do even more good by helping build the Erie canal or a transcontinental railroad or an interstate highway system or subsidizing electric cars...

People get caught up in that way of thinking. I have several friends who were helped very much as children and young adults by welfare programs. Their fathers died and they had mothers with low value or no marketable skills... They refuse to even look at the possibility that the welfare state has not been completely good, because it worked for them.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #16 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 1:55pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 8th, 2019 at 7:51am:
On one point at least.

Heard this on the radio, so sorry no link.

She was questioning a doctor and asked WTTE of ~when the public funds drug research,  the public is acting as an early investor.  Does the public get a return on this investment?~

Great question.  The answer was no.  After the government funded research comes up with a new drug, it is turned over to a for-profit drug maker with no license fees or any other remuneration.

The libertarian answer is that the government has no business taking money by force to "invest" it for them, be it social security which "invests" in treasury notes or medical research.  Since there are so few on here who agree that taxation is theft, would you at least agree that since the taxes are purportedly "for our own good," shouldn't drug makers pay something for the intellectual property that supposedly belongs to the public?


No.

The IP belongs to the government, who funded the research, not the People, who didn't.

If taxation is theft, it's analogous to me telling a thief I can now run his life because he stole my money. If I want my money back, I must take him to a private court and prove he stole. In absence of that, I must simply consider the theft a loss and move on with my life. I don't get to run the thief's life, or tell him how he spends his money.

If taxation is legitimate, the government can do whatever they want with the money. Like Kaz said, their roads, their choice. Their drug-funding programmes, their choice. They can choose to give the public a slice, or not. They choose the latter.

It makes people angry that I get the right answer by working backwards from favour the biggest businessmen, but I don't particularly care how I get the answers if they're correct.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #17 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:21pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 1:55pm:
No.

The IP belongs to the government, who funded the research, not the People, who didn't.

Ha ha.

The government is granted only limited power to acquire and "own" property. (Check in the Constitution to see what and why.)

The government is granted no power to compete with private companies to produce products of any sort.

The government doesn't have any of its own money. Any money it has, no matter how it gets it, is the People's money, revenue to be used for the proper execution of the tasks we've set the government to do.
  

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #18 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 4:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:21pm:
Ha ha.

The government is granted only limited power to acquire and "own" property. (Check in the Constitution to see what and why.)

The government is granted no power to compete with private companies to produce products of any sort.

The government doesn't have any of its own money. Any money it has, no matter how it gets it, is the People's money, revenue to be used for the proper execution of the tasks we've set the government to do.


Check Kaz's stance on the issue. Come back to me when you've refuted him (which you can't).

kaz wrote on Jan 1st, 2019 at 7:19pm:
That would be one choice that government can make on roads it built and regulates.  Or they could require you to buy insurance to drive on government roads.  They choice the latter


Their roads, their choice.

Their drug-funding programmes, their choice.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Little Big Man
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Re: Ocasio-Cortez Makes Sense
Reply #19 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 6:59pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:21pm:
Ha ha.

The government is granted only limited power to acquire and "own" property. (Check in the Constitution to see what and why.)

The government is granted no power to compete with private companies to produce products of any sort.

The government doesn't have any of its own money. Any money it has, no matter how it gets it, is the People's money, revenue to be used for the proper execution of the tasks we've set the government to do.


I think if you look at it the way Oppo does, you will understand the situation a little more realistically.  "The people" and "the government" are two completely different entities.  The framers realized that fully well which is why they enshrined protection from the government for some of the people and specifically barred the government from protecting others of the people.

The government indeed has its own money.  They print money that is legal tender for all debts public and private.  The government also owns land that they lease to the public which is another source of its own money.

Also, since you believe that taxation is completely legitimate as long as it is the government doing it, the government owns all money it has or will collect in those taxes.

  

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