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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rules and Enforcement (Read 993 times)
Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #10 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:41pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 2:54pm:
That's right, it's up to the judges. And the juries.

Instead of having clear rules about what you can and cannot do, civil law leaves it up to people to decide whether any action was punishable by law.

The rules are clear and simple, it's the various possible real world circumstances and strange occurrences that make applying the simple rules difficult.

You trespassed on my property. I set a booby trap to blow you sky high if you got too close to my house, but I did a bad job and you were merely severely injured and will be crippled for life.

The law says we both did wrong, you for trespassing, and me for setting a booby trap that could have killed an innocent four year old who couldn't read and had no idea of the concept of property or trespass.

How would you word a statute to take care of such a specific and rare occurrence, so that there was a specific known-in-advance penalty, so justice would be done in this case without having to let a jury hear all the facts and decide?

Suppose you had to break into my house to set off the booby trap? Would the same penalties apply all around as in the first case?

How about if the booby trap wasn't set to go off until you approached my children's bedroom, and you were a previously convicted child molester who has been entering houses and raping children around the whole area where I live?

Are we both liable in the same ways for all of those "you trespassed and my booby trap almost killed you and left you a cripple" scenarios?
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #11 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 4:03pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:41pm:
The rules are clear and simple,


Right, it's clear and simple that when you get sued, whether you're to be punished or not is decided by people, not according to what you did but by how they feel about it.

Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:41pm:
How would you word a statute to take care of such a specific and rare occurrence, so that there was a specific known-in-advance penalty, so justice would be done in this case without having to let a jury hear all the facts and decide?


I fully support civil law, so I wouldn't do anything differently. I'm just pointing out that it is an infinite set of rules, loosely enforced.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #12 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 10:21pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 4:03pm:
Right, it's clear and simple that when you get sued, whether you're to be punished or not is decided by people...
It would be swell if God judged every human action, and maybe that happens,  but don't expect to get a written decision. Cheesy
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #13 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 10:21pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 4:03pm:
I'm just pointing out that it is an infinite set of rules, loosely enforced.
You are wrong, again. As usual.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #14 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 10:56pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 4:03pm:
Right, it's clear and simple that when you get sued, whether you're to be punished or not is decided by people, not according to what you did but by how they feel about it.

  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #15 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 8:30am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 10:56pm:
Let's say you entered my house planning to rape my daughter, but the booby trap I had set up turned you into a quadriplegic.

There's no evidence you broke into the house, and of course you claim that you stopped raping children after the last one, and had no intention of committing rape, you just got confused and entered my house thinking it belonged to a friend of yours who let you sleep in his spare room.

What should the penalty be? The one you want to be clearly laid out in the law beforehand.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #16 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 1:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 8:30am:
What should the penalty be?


Whatever the judge's feels and the jury's feels say it should be.

I keep telling you I support civil law as it is.

I'm just pointing out that with civil law, there are infinite rules, loosely enforced.

How about telling me why I'm wrong instead of just stating that I am? All you need is one counter-example: One action that can never be punished.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #17 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 3:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 1:41pm:
Whatever the judge's feels and the jury's feels say it should be.

I keep telling you I support civil law as it is.

I'm just pointing out that with civil law, there are infinite rules, loosely enforced.

How about telling me why I'm wrong instead of just stating that I am? All you need is one counter-example: One action that can never be punished.


Hey, Opposition.  I was looking for the post where you said you don't know what the term burns red has to do with politics and couldn't find it.

Anyway, I did notice you spell with an extra "u" and were part of the British empire somewhere, but I didn't realize you didn't get red and blue.  Red and Blue mean Republican and Democrat in the US.  Just the color refers to the party, you see that all the time. 

For example, if you said two guys had a red and a blue tie, Americans would get right way you're talking about a Republican and a Democrat.

So "burns red" means a passionate Republican.  So when burnsred joined the board, he knew exactly what he was saying.  Then he realized he could troll a libertarian board by just being a butt head about taxes, so he keeps changing his user name.

When I brought it up over his lame he's an anarchist crap, he did a quick internet search for anything "burns red" and found some esoteric reference to an Indian character.  So now he's "little big man" as a lame attempt to corroborate his lame story that he doesn't get burns red
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #18 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 3:06pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 1:41pm:
Whatever the judge's feels and the jury's feels say it should be.

You said it would be better, both more just and more moral, to have a known preexisting punishment for every infraction.

If you think that is feasible, tell me what the preexisting known punishment should have been that would apply to my scenario. Thanks.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #19 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 3:08pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 3:04pm:
...but I didn't realize you didn't get red and blue.  Red and Blue mean Republican and Democrat in the US.  Just the color refers to the party, you see that all the time. 

I didn't get it either!

Red means communist to me, and Blue is the name of a Canadian beer. Grin
  

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