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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rules and Enforcement (Read 976 times)
Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #40 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:19am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:50pm:
I admit it's immoral.


I don't understand. Why would it be immoral?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #41 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:20am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:50pm:
This was all discussed thoroughly in the original thread.
Something else might have been taken. Is that theft?

You answer the question.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #42 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 10:37am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:19am:
I don't understand. Why would it be immoral?


Because civil law is right.

You'll never answer the question about theft because a libertarian can't answer a principles question, because you have no principles, and that's fine. Everything should be case-by-case.

Let's just say a judge and jury should decide if it's theft, after hearing the full circumstances, not just that something was taken without permission.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #43 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 10:44am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 10:37am:
Because civil law is right.

You'll never answer the question about theft because a libertarian can't answer a principles question, because you have no principles, and that's fine. Everything should be case-by-case.

Let's just say a judge and jury should decide if it's theft, after hearing the full circumstances, not just that something was taken without permission.


Other people want to plunder us, and we don't want to be plundered.  Gotcha, bud, we're the ones with principle issues ...
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #44 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:10am
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kaz wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 10:44am:
Other people want to plunder us, and we don't want to be plundered.  Gotcha, bud, we're the ones with principle issues ...


That's right. You don't have principles. Everything is grey. Nothing is black and white.

You never have to say, "Damn, this principle works against me here, but since I want to be fair, and I really believe this principle is right, I still support it."

Everything is case-by-case. No principle governs anything.

kaz wrote on Feb 6th, 2019 at 4:59pm:
Yes, life is gray.  You want it to be black and white.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #45 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 2:15pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 10:37am:
You'll never answer the question about theft because a libertarian can't answer a principles question, because you have no principles, and that's fine. Everything should be case-by-case.

In this case, the bar maid is my wife and I took her car keys after I changed the five ones for a five. She asked me to fill up the gas tank for her so she wouldn't have to stop on the way home.

So, something was taken but it wasn't theft.

No explicit permission was given. I didn't even tell her I was taking her keys!

After I got home, I wanted to trim some shrubs, so I opened my neighbors garden shed and took her limb loppers. When I saw her coming home, I waved them in the air and said "I took your limb loppers", she smiled and said "Stop in and have a beer when your done."

Something was taken without permission and it wasn't theft.

What was your scenario?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #46 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 2:22pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:10am:
That's right. You don't have principles. Everything is grey. Nothing is black and white.


Principles are black and white, applying them to people in real situations is not.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #47 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 5:18pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 2:15pm:
In this case, the bar maid is my wife and I took her car keys after I changed the five ones for a five. She asked me to fill up the gas tank for her so she wouldn't have to stop on the way home.

So, something was taken but it wasn't theft.

No explicit permission was given. I didn't even tell her I was taking her keys!

After I got home, I wanted to trim some shrubs, so I opened my neighbors garden shed and took her limb loppers. When I saw her coming home, I waved them in the air and said "I took your limb loppers", she smiled and said "Stop in and have a beer when your done."

Something was taken without permission and it wasn't theft.

What was your scenario?


Cleaned out your barmaid wife’s tip jar and then stopped in for a beer with the neighbor lady?  You DAWG!

Your scenario involves no theft, because there is implied permission for both the tips your wife earned and the tool your neighbor is happy to lend you since you seem to be lending her your tool *rimshot*.

When I finally bought a house, I got a new lawnmower and a new gas can.  Soon, my gas can appeared to magically change into an old beat up gas can with a “J” painted on it.  It actually had about as much gas as mine did.  We made jokes that it must have been that “you doesn’t have to call me “Johnson” guy.   But that was theft, even though I’ve had that gas can for ten years and it holds gas and the spout directs it into my mower tank. 




  

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kaz
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #48 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 6:04pm
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 11:10am:
That's right. You don't have principles. Everything is grey. Nothing is black and white.

You never have to say, "Damn, this principle works against me here, but since I want to be fair, and I really believe this principle is right, I still support it."

Everything is case-by-case. No principle governs anything.



I'm trying not to insult you, but you're such a stupid douche retard.  I started a link to explain my standard to you and have stated it very clearly.

Government should do those things where there can be only one solution.  Anything where we can make a choice is better served by a free market.

There cannot be two militaries, police departments, sets of roads, civil or criminal courts, arbiters of property rights.  There cannot be multiple sets of water mains down the street or multiple power lines or phone lines.  Those sorts of things need to be run by government or regulated. That is a clear standard to anyone but a complete and utter imbecile
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rules and Enforcement
Reply #49 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:20pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 5:18pm:
Your scenario involves no theft, because there is implied permission for both the tips your wife earned and the tool your neighbor is happy to lend you since you seem to be lending her your tools.
Right.

So how about the lizard's scenario where something could have been taken? What do you make of that one?

Actually the neighbor never borrows my tools, but sometimes I give her a hand with things/
  

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