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genepool
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Why some states should be run like corporations?
Feb 8th, 2019 at 12:03pm
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I like libertarianism 80% of the time. Do I like libertarianism all the way?

I don't think so.

Do I want people to have right to crucify cats? No.
Do I need to respect people's right to crucify cats so that my right is respected to? No. In fact, I think the causal relationship is very weak.
Do I want every world to be libertarian? No.

In fact, if the whole world is libertarian then we have a very unlibertarian conclusion. That is, there will be no freedom to associate. What about if some muslims, or christians, or jews, or chinese, or whites or whatever want to have their own country far away from me?

If all the world are libertarians, those people will have no where to go. So they will live next to me. Then their votes will affect my life. Not a good idea either right?

We all have different ideas on how government should be run. We are convinced we are right and those that's different are lying or wrong.

I wonder. Why argue? Why work hard so much to convince others that we're right?

Look at corporations in the world. McDonald produce Big Mac. Burger King produces Quarter Ponder. Do we have any laws how should they run their biz? For most cases no.

All we need are much simpler laws. McDonald, for example, cannot defraud customers. It cannot send armed thugs to Burger King. It cannot violate trade mark, etc. etc.

However, the company can decide all they want. They can decide what kind of burgers they gonna sell. They can decide how much they charge for it. They can decide how to market it.

What about if you don't like the way McDonald is managed? What about if the price is too high? You move to Burger King and via versa.

We all have different values on what we think is good government.

Some, like me, is 80% libertarian. Another wants theocratic rules. Some wants drugs and prostitution to be illegal. Some, like me, think it should be up to individuals.

What about, if all those people, live in different places? What about if people move to where they like?

Again, we do not need to micro manage how each places are governed. Some like income taxes, some raise revenue through land tax, some tax import. Some have freedom of speech, some have anti blasphemy laws. Why not each choose to go to where they like?

The states are like corporations. The citizens/kings/rulers are like the "owners". The population and tourists are like the customers. You don't like it, you don't go there. Why can't we do things like that?

Then we can try each of our idea. If you think drugs are dangerous and people need religions, go to a theocratic state. If you think religions are dangerous and some drugs can improve your IQ, go to a more libertarian state. Why not like that?

Then we no longer have to argue we're right. Each go to where we like. Each can see how the others do.

And that's the idea of competing privatized states
http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1549518924/0#6

Is this practical?

Yes.

In fact, our world is already like this. There are 164 nations competing for your investment, your tax money, and your contribution.

Even within countries, areas have autonomy. Within a country, you can move from one place to another.

The thing is, under, say, democracies, for example, provinces do not have "owners". The people in one population can govern well, only to have the benefit shared with people from other provinces. Voters do not have incentive to vote correctly because if they mess up, they can just move to another province. So, we need an area where that doesn't happen.

Moreover, there are plenty of very poor countries. Countries that can be persuaded to relinquish it's sovereignty over certain regions for money. Investors, like Roger Ver, can buy autonomy or sovereignty from an established state, and govern all they wish.

It's win win. Many countries do not have money and do not have good government.

Even if they are democratic, they will just elect a tyrant.

Why not elect a capitalistic investor instead? Let's call that Capitalistic Colonialism. I am sure making win win solution with starved to death africans won't be tough. We just have to be quick before they're too rich  Smiley

In fact, Roger Ver wanted to do something even more than that. He wanted to create a libertarian country and I think he wants almost full sovereignity. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/interview-roger-ver-his-plans-start-new-lib...

Even that is possible.

Competing Privatized State is more moderate. It doesn't have to be fully libertarian. I supposes, tax shall be low, and freedom should be high to attract productive people in. But that's pretty much it.

After that, let them govern like they do any corporations.

The surest way to know the truth, is to try many things and see the result. Why don't we do that?

  
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genepool
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #1 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 1:41pm
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There are things that I think the market do not provide.

1. Security.

Security is like insurance. I suppose, one day we will have insurance combined with security providers. If you get robbed, the insurance pay half and to prevent that from happening hunt the robbers and kill them.

However, it's far fetched. For now, the governments are main providers of security. I would consider fellow citizens as members of a defense pact. Not fully consensual, but how can you get full consent among millions of people living in one area anyway? If it's fair enough and the cost of this defense pact is reasonable, I wouldn't bitch.

2. Roads.

Main beneficiary of roads are land owners. By building roads and other infrastructure, government improve land value.

I suppose we can make a deal with land owners to help fund roads' cost. However, a bit of centralized planning and collectivism isn't going to be too bad.

3. Grey area consent. What about if people make obfuscated offers with misleading terms? Should it be legal due to it being technically consensual. Should it be illegal because it's fraud? Why not let some rulers decide. If you go to a dating sites or an online market like eBay, we also have rulers deciding whether certain misleading practice is allowed or not right?

So basically, I may be wrong. However, I do not know any sure fire answer to those questions.

Why not let each state try their own solution and see which one works best?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #2 - Feb 8th, 2019 at 4:22pm
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genepool wrote on Feb 8th, 2019 at 1:41pm:
There are things that I think the market do not provide.

1. Security.

Security is like insurance. I suppose, one day we will have insurance combined with security providers. If you get robbed, the insurance pay half and to prevent that from happening hunt the robbers and kill them.


You can get much better insurance than that, but it's on a sliding scale, If you want to insure everything you own against theft with no deductible, it will cost a lot.

Note: thermie, it's illegal to hire people to kill other people.

If your 'insurance' man offers to do something like that, it's probably a government sting operation. Shocked Tell him you really can't afford it...
  
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genepool
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #3 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 12:56am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 8th, 2019 at 4:22pm:
You can get much better insurance than that, but it's on a sliding scale, If you want to insure everything you own against theft with no deductible, it will cost a lot.

Note: thermie, it's illegal to hire people to kill other people.

If your 'insurance' man offers to do something like that, it's probably a government sting operation. Shocked Tell him you really can't afford it...



I was exaggerating. I am thinking of a market where the insurance company is like HMO. HMO doesn't just insure if you're sick but would also pay you to get vaccinated to prevent disease.

I am thinking of an insurance company that also set locks and stuff and have incentive to do their job right. That way you don't have to worry about security.
  
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #4 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:35am
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In fact, I would advocate the government to be "co victim" in exchange of protection fee in case of theft, robbery, or murder.

That's because crime rates depend a lot on governments' action. So it's kind of natural to hold people responsible, with incentive, for things where they are in control.

You get robbed. Governments pay half of your money lost if you can proof it. Now, government is "co victim".

Cops tell the people. Look, we lost profit because Bob get robbed. I need this CCTV installed to reduce robbery.

CEO approved. Tada..... Less robbery... Investors, tourists, and tax payers will come.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #5 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:26am
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genepool wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 12:56am:
I was exaggerating. I am thinking of a market where the insurance company is like HMO.
People run insurance companies (or they used to anyway) to provide a product that people want and can afford to pay for so that the insurance company will be profitable and can stay in business and pay off claims.

If you want to pay for insurance that covers preventative care, some insurance company will sell it to you. It will cost more than if you just buy a policy that covers catastrophic care, which not all that long ago you could buy, and the policies were pretty cheap.
  
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #6 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:29am
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genepool wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 3:35am:
You get robbed. Governments pay half of your money lost if you can proof it. Now, government is "co victim".

You're confused. It's not the victims that have to make restitution.

I think your trying to say that government causes crime, so government should be considered the "co-criminal".


  
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #7 - Feb 9th, 2019 at 4:29pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 9th, 2019 at 8:29am:
You're confused. It's not the victims that have to make restitution.

I think your trying to say that government causes crime, so government should be considered the "co-criminal".




Say I am an investor. Say I want to invest either in US or in Canada.

One of the thing I will look is what's the crime rate.

I would invest in "saver" countries even if that country have higher tax.

This are just samples. In practice, I wouldn't invest in rich countries. I would invest in poor countries or bitcoin and have much better return.  Grin

But you got the idea.

Oh yea the name of the ideology shouldn't be privatized competing states. I think it should be joint stock republic. The idea is that the states should be governed like private corporations. So actually the names sort of make sense right.
  
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #8 - Feb 17th, 2019 at 12:07pm
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How do things improved in private sector?

Look at Uber. Someone starts with an idea. Why not make finding cab easier? Why not allow anyone to be taxi driver.

Simple idea.

Then they do some coding and create uber.

If his idea is bad, then it wouldn't sell.

If his idea is good, he's a billionaire. Well, it's not really that simple. However, most of the time, that's how private sectors work.

Just like we have start up in business, we should have start up in politic.

Democracy, monarchy, libertarian-ism, georgism. All those are idea that may be good, may be bad. It may be good for some it may be bad for others.

We should let people try.

The problem is, how do we keep score?

In uber and many other start ups, it's easy. How do I say it? The market, with little or no intervention of government sort of take care of it.

If Uber ideas are good, then investors, customers, and drivers may agree. Then they will try, usually small first. Once it works then it grows big.

Everyone is profited when the idea is good.

Can we do the same with governments?

Well, under current democracy, it's a bit tricky.

For example, imagine if a state in united states vote for communism, north korean style. Say the state or city went bankrupt. Then what happens? The population in the city will just go to another city.

Actually, similar things are happening. Many muslim countries end up becoming war zones. Why? They're not secular. Then what?

The muslims just move to europe. What happen when they moved to europe? Did they say, wow, I should promote secularism back home? Some do.

However, many muslims promote the exact same thing that turn their countries into warzone. Yes, not all muslims are terrorists. However, there are reasons why terrorists tend to be muslims. There are many things that muslims do that make terrorists are likely.

Or imagine liberal compassionate voters in a state. The liberal compassionate voters give more welfare to ensure no child is left behind. What happens is some feckless father produces 20 children. All those children are likely to be similar to their dad. So we have hordes of welfare parasites poping babies like machine guns. Every single one can vote for even bigger welfare.

The state collapse and where does the population go? They just go to another state voting for bigger and bigger welfare and higher tax again.

Notice, neither the muslims nor the liberals are "evil" in a sense. Neither of them I think deliberately vote for strategies that make their states fail. What's more likely is they're ignorant. The muslims vote based on faith and liberals vote based on compassion. If they vote wrong, someone else, namely tax payers and other citizens, pay for it. So it's natural they would be ignorant.

Many muslims vote based on faith. Some religious leaders say this fatwa. So they enforce it. Another religious leaders say another fatwa. They try to enforce it again. When the fatwa clash they fight. But they don't think that far.

The liberals just can't let a kid starve. However, if every kids are fed, many poor people will just breed. Women will prefer the poor more because tax payers pay for the kid anyway. The liberals simply do not see that link. They think women pick based on love or whatever and any other deviation is oppression or what.

Everyone would when they make decisions collectively.

So why don't we go back to private sectors and see how do they do it.

Say I created uber. Say my idea isn't good. Say the program is buggy and customers are angry I get low rating. What can I do? I can be a google shareholder and vote? If my company fail, can I easily vote or control another company and make it fail too?

No. To the opposite. If my company is successful, I am rich, I can buy failing companies at cheaper price, and turn it around. If my company fails, then all I can do is sell it to smarter people.

Companies, unlike states, have "owners". Those owners will have direct and clear benefits if the companies are run effectively and efficiently. They lost when the company is miss managed. The share holders in those companies have unified incentives. All are profited if and only if the company go well.

The shares can be traded and have valuation.

If companies have owners, why states don't? States should have owners too. In democratic countries, we can say that the people own it. Just make it explicit. Convert citizenship into tradeable corporate share.

Now, govern well, then a state will prosper. Govern badly, and the state will be poor. Richer state can help poorer state by buying shares from poorer states and govern well.

If the state is governed well, surely plenty of people will want to live in that state. It's up to the state how to tax them. Tax too high, people would leave. Tax too low and they're not making too much profit.

I am sure there are many many many ways to increase tax revenue and still make a state attractive for people to come in. In fact, tax revenue can increase by lowering tax rate. Just like shops can often make profit by undercutting price of competing shops, states too can "race to the bottom" in taxing.

It also gives a clear answer on what's good and bad. Good for who? Well, good for whoever wants to come to the state. If you don't like it, just don't go to the state. In fact, if the state is small enough, it's easy to just live the state and go a "normal" state.
  
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kaz
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Re: Why some states should be run like corporations?
Reply #9 - Feb 17th, 2019 at 12:22pm
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genepool wrote on Feb 17th, 2019 at 12:07pm:
How do things improved in private sector?

Look at Uber. Someone starts with an idea. Why not make finding cab easier? Why not allow anyone to be taxi driver.

Simple idea.

Then they do some coding and create uber.

If his idea is bad, then it wouldn't sell.



Capitalism is about free markets, not corporations.  Governments remove choice.   Having a corporation with no choice is no different than having a government with no choice
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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