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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Design-A-Country (Read 1440 times)
Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #10 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:46am
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kaz wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:13am:
BTW, many of the States already had elected Senators, not legislature appointed Senators.  The Constitution did not mandate the legislatures appoint the Senators
Article I, Sect. 3 says "The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof..."

In law, the term "shall" means must.
  

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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #11 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:55am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:46am:
Article I, Sect. 3 says "The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof..."

In law, the term "shall" means must.


Right.  So Oregon for example had an election.  The legislature agreed to appoint the popular vote winner, and they did
  

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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #12 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 10:16am
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kaz wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:55am:
Right.  So Oregon for example had an election.  The legislature agreed to appoint the popular vote winner, and they did
Yes, states could do that, but the state legislature that appointed the Senators could recall them.

That was part of the plan to make Senators dependent on the state legislatures, to give the states a voice in Congress that would balance and could oppose the voice of the people in the House.

You really don't want a lawmaking body that is totally controlled by the state governments, but neither do you want one that is totally controlled by the people.
  

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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #13 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 10:23am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 10:16am:
Yes, states could do that, but the state legislature that appointed the Senators could recall them.

That was part of the plan to make Senators dependent on the state legislatures, to give the states a voice in Congress that would balance and could oppose the voice of the people in the House.

You really don't want a lawmaking body that is totally controlled by the state governments, but neither do you want one that is totally controlled by the people.


There are 50 State governments, each of which have separate votes.  That you think a majority of legislatures voting is like 50 people voting is just moronic.  And furthermore, the legislatures have competing interests with each other.  The 17th enabled the Federal government to seize power from the States.

Notice also that you just moved on that you were wrong there were already elections for Senators to your next stupid argument without ever acknowledging you were wrong.

One way we're massively different is I constantly google, including for things I already know.  That while you don't google things, including those you don't know.  You just make up what you want to be the answer and ignore it when you turn out to be wrong
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #14 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 11:58am
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kaz wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 6:16am:
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Privately-run Courts Law enforcement, and Military

So what does that mean exactly?  Are there competing companies providing multiple courts, law enforcement and military?  Or is there one for each?  How are they picked?

I left out a comma, which made it ambiguous.   I meant to write:

Privately-run Courts, Law enforcement, and Military

Local governments will hire Judges to sit on the bench.  The Courthouse is a Public building. If a sitting Judge performs poorly, he may be fired for cause.  City Council may convene a Judiciary Committee to assess the competency of any sitting Judge.

The City Council will select and contract Local Law Enforcement. 

The fed gov't will fund and oversee the Military.   The Commander of the Armed Forces (highest ranking Military official) is appointed by the President, but all other officers, servicemen, and personnel are hired.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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genepool
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #15 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 1:26pm
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Joint Stock Republic

I want my states to be run like private corporation. So I want competing "privatized" states. It seek profit but must compete with other states.

I would just my states based on what the other states do. For example, I wouldn't call it wrong for the state to ask for 10% income taxes if the states' competitors are charging 40% income tax.

However, I would suggest land tax instead of income tax. Hei, it's up to share holders. Those who don't like it can get out.

It's like democracy. However, people don't get shares simply by breeding. That's the main difference between my state and democracy.

I would set the state as a corporation owned by stockholders and investors.

Anyone wanting citizenship must buy or contribute.

I would hire mercenaries or be vasal for some powerful countries. Mercenaries can also be share holders. In fact, some of the pay will be shares. Shares can be inherited to children.



After that, I would let the stockholders decide. If they want to tax land, or income or whatever. As long as it's not excessive and not abrupt. So people that don't like it can escape peacefully.

That's all.

The states are like Disney land. It can be anything. They can put mickey mouse. They can put Japanese porn star as maskot. They can be theocracy. They can be secular. It can be libertarian minarchist (vanilla states). It's up to the state.

Those who don't like it don't have to come. However, the states should be small enough that people that don't like it can just leave to another.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #16 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 1:57pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 10:23am:
There are 50 State governments, each of which have separate votes.  That you think a majority of legislatures voting is like 50 people voting is just moronic.  And furthermore, the legislatures have competing interests with each other.  The 17th enabled the Federal government to seize power from the States.
Yes, repeal the 17th Amendment.

The whole idea was to make it difficult to pass laws.

Getting as many competing interests as possible into the lawmaking process would, it was hoped, result in very few laws being passed, and those that were passed being passed because they were agreeable to all the various interests in the nation.

I don't at all think that a vote among the 100 Representatives of 50 states (Senators) is at all like 50 random individuals voting, or 50 Representatives in one State Legislature voting... That would be moronic!
  

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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #17 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:01pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 10:23am:
Notice also that you just moved on that you were wrong there were already elections for Senators...
I didn't. I thought I was clear.

If the Oregon legislature chose to allow a popular vote to determine who they would appoint to the U.S. Senate, they could do that, but the chosen Senators were still appointed by the State Legislature and could be recalled by the State Legislature. That's the important point.

I assume if Oregon recalled a Senator, they would have another general election to choose a new Senator, who would then be appointed by the Legislature to the senate.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #18 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:03pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 10:23am:
...to your next stupid argument...
Which was?

Please specify, as I don't think my arguments are stupid and can't read your mind. Thanks.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #19 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:12pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 11:58am:
Privately-run Courts, Law enforcement, and Military

Local governments will hire Judges to sit on the bench.  The Courthouse is a Public building. If a sitting Judge performs poorly, he may be fired for cause.  City Council may convene a Judiciary Committee to assess the competency of any sitting Judge.

The City Council will select and contract Local Law Enforcement. 

The fed gov't will fund and oversee the Military.   The Commander of the Armed Forces (highest ranking Military official) is appointed by the President, but all other officers, servicemen, and personnel are hired.
We elect our Judges in my state. I like that better.

We elect our county Sheriff. I like that better too.

You want all the Generals and Admirals and lower ranking officers to be hired by the President? I don't think that's a good idea at all...

Will they then be protected by Civil Service laws and belong to a government union?

Who do you suppose the President would actually delegate this responsibility to?

When you say "the fed govt." will fund and oversee the military, you mean they'll use tax revenue and the Secretary of Defense will have overall responsibility for the military (except in times of declared war, when the President wil be Commander in Chief)?
  

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