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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Design-A-Country (Read 1441 times)
SkyChief
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #20 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:45pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:12pm:
We elect our Judges in my state. I like that better.

We elect our county Sheriff. I like that better too.
Oppo asked us to Design-A-Country. So i did.  I realize that in the US, judges and sheriffs are elected.

Jeff wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:12pm:
You want all the Generals and Admirals and lower ranking officers to be hired by the President? I don't think that's a good idea at all...
I never said or implied that.

Jeff wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:12pm:
When you say "the fed govt." will fund and oversee the military, you mean they'll use tax revenue and the Secretary of Defense will have overall responsibility for the military (except in times of declared war, when the President wil be Commander in Chief)?

No.  There is no "Secretary of Defense".  The Commander of the Armed Forces (highest ranking Military official) is appointed by the President, but all other officers, servicemen, and personnel are hired.

Commander of the Armed Forces will hire the Commander of the Army, the Commander of the Navy, and the Commander of the Air Corps.   

The Commander of the Army will hire his Captains and Lieutenants.

The Commander of the Navy will hire his admirals and Captains  etc, etc....

Basically, the 3 Military branches are run like a corporation, with revenues coming from the (3%) Federal Sales Tax.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #21 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 3:08pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 2:45pm:
No.  There is no "Secretary of Defense".  The Commander of the Armed Forces (highest ranking Military official) is appointed by the President, but all other officers, servicemen, and personnel are hired.

Commander of the Armed Forces will hire the Commander of the Army, the Commander of the Navy, and the Commander of the Air Corps.   

The Commander of the Army will hire his Captains and Lieutenants.

The Commander of the Navy will hire his admirals and Captains  etc, etc....

Basically, the 3 Military branches are run like a corporation, with revenues coming from the (3%) Federal Sales Tax.
The highest ranking military official is the Secretary of Defense, and he/she is appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.

Probably I don't actually know what you mean by "hiring" generals etc.

The way you describe the process isn't at all the way corporations operate unless they are currently existing big corporations, in which case heads of departments probably might have authority to hire people to work in their departments, but they only hire senior people (if that) and the corporation has a personnel department to hire everybody else.

Will 2nd Lieutenants have to/get to hire the foot soldiers under their direct authority, or will Sergeants do that?

Edit: Here's how you become a General now:

https://www.military-ranks.org/air-force/brigadier-general

I think it's a much better system than what you propose.
  

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ahhell
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #22 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 3:31pm
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A constitutional republic with democratic features.

I would have to kinds of citizens.
First Class:  The get all the rights and privileges of citizenship except for voting and holding elected office. They also get taxed.
Second class, they get all the same rights and privileges as the first class and the right to vote/hold office. 

In order to be the second class you have to perform some form of public service, preferable just military service but like Heinlein's Star Ship Troopers, the military would have to take everyone.  The would be obligated to educate the enlistees in their civic duties. 

Active duty military would be first class citizens.

There would be upper and lower houses of the legislature more similar to the original intent of the US constitution.  There would be 3 executives.  On for domestic issues, one for foreign affairs and one for the ceremonial BS.  Any 2 could veto the actions of the third which could then be overturned by the legislature.  I'd probably have the foreign guy elected by the the lower more democratic legislative house, the ceremonial guy appointed by the upper house and the domestic guy voted on directly. 

It would be a federal system with wide latitude given to the individual states in domestic affairs. 

I'd probably have some sort of cursus honorum, where in to get elected or appointed to higher office you'd have to have served some lower office, like the romans. 

The power of the feds would be severely limited as it was 200years ago. Note, typo, that should have been 200 not 20

I'd consider giving the ex-executives some sort of position too.  Maybe the ability to try current executives in impeachment hearings or the ability to meat and veto the actions of current executives via super majority of the  former execs.   

The supreme court would be a panel of judges with 7, 9, or 11 members with a single term equal to 2x the number of justices in years with one up appointment every 2 years.  This insulates them from popular opinion and defangs the political fight over appointments. 
« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2019 at 9:07am by ahhell »  
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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #23 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 4:14pm
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 11:58am:
Quote:
So what does that mean exactly?  Are there competing companies providing multiple courts, law enforcement and military?  Or is there one for each?  How are they picked?

I left out a comma, which made it ambiguous.   I meant to write:

Privately-run Courts, Law enforcement, and Military

Local governments will hire Judges to sit on the bench.  The Courthouse is a Public building. If a sitting Judge performs poorly, he may be fired for cause.  City Council may convene a Judiciary Committee to assess the competency of any sitting Judge.

The City Council will select and contract Local Law Enforcement. 

The fed gov't will fund and oversee the Military.   The Commander of the Armed Forces (highest ranking Military official) is appointed by the President, but all other officers, servicemen, and personnel are hired.


Nothing threw me off.  The missing comma was fine.  I just wanted more specificity.

I don't understand in your scenario how you think corporations being outsourced as government are any better than government.  It's free markets that make us what we are, not "corporations."  Corporations are as inefficient, greedy and power hungry as government without competition.  So why is that better?  Outsourcing government to select corporations?

There can be only one police department, I'm not advocating that we have a free market of competing police, that would be chaos.  I'm just asking what the benefit of outsourcing it to a corporation is since there is still only one and it won't act any different than government.

Ma Bell, the Fed, the Post Office, private prisons, the list of government outsourcing being no different than government is endless.  I've worked with endless government contractors who also suck and act nothing like contractors who work for free market companies
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #24 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:54pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 3:08pm:
The highest ranking military official is the Secretary of Defense, and he/she is appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.

Maybe in YOUR country.

In MY country, things are better. Deal with it.  sorry,.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #25 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:32am
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ahhell wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
I would have to kinds of citizens.
First Class:  The get all the rights and privileges of citizenship except for voting and holding elected office. They also get taxed.
Second class, they get all the same rights and privileges as the first class and the right to vote/hold office. 

In order to be the second class you have to perform some form of public service, preferable just military service but like Heinlein's Star Ship Troopers, the military would have to take everyone.  The would be obligated to educate the enlistees in their civic duties. 

Active duty military would be first class citizens.

Required "public service", preferably military, in order to "earn" the vote...

What other forms of "public service" might be options?

Who gets to decide what the "civic duties are? Can you give an example or two?

If you don't join the military will you still be taught the required "civic duties"? How will that happen?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #26 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:38am
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:54pm:
Maybe in YOUR country.

In MY country, things are better. Deal with it.  sorry,.
It isn't made better by changing the name of the position to something other than Secretary of Defense. The position used to be called Secretary of War. Things weren't improved by changing the name to Secretary of Defense and won't be changed by calling whoever "Commander of the Armed Forces".

Would the President still be Commander in Chief during declared wars?
  

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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #27 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:46am
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 8:54pm:
Maybe in YOUR country.

In MY country, things are better. Deal with it.  sorry,.


If you believe that, then why aren't you answering my question about your country?  I don't see any benefit in corporations with no competition being government.  We do it now, and I don't see any difference in how these corporations (I listed examples above) are any better than government in any way.  The Fed is the largest criminal organization in the history of mankind
  

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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #28 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:47am
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ahhell wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
A constitutional republic with democratic features.

The power of the feds would be severely limited as it was 20 years ago. 

...or the ability to meat and veto the actions of current executives via super majority of the  former execs.   

The power of the feds was just about as unlimited 20 years ago as it is now, they've just had more time to pass more unintelligible laws and hand them off to the bureaucrats so more regulations can be written supposedly pertaining to those unintelligible laws.

Giving ex-executives the ability to meat doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Let them worry about meating on their own if they want to.

Giving the states "wide latitude" doesn't sound nearly as good as the Tenth Amendment...
  

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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #29 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:55am
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ahhell wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
A constitutional republic with democratic features.

I would have to kinds of citizens.
First Class:  The get all the rights and privileges of citizenship except for voting and holding elected office. They also get taxed.
Second class, they get all the same rights and privileges as the first class and the right to vote/hold office. 

In order to be the second class you have to perform some form of public service, preferable just military service but like Heinlein's Star Ship Troopers, the military would have to take everyone.  The would be obligated to educate the enlistees in their civic duties. 

Active duty military would be first class citizens.

There would be upper and lower houses of the legislature more similar to the original intent of the US constitution.  There would be 3 executives.  On for domestic issues, one for foreign affairs and one for the ceremonial BS.  Any 2 could veto the actions of the third which could then be overturned by the legislature.  I'd probably have the foreign guy elected by the the lower more democratic legislative house, the ceremonial guy appointed by the upper house and the domestic guy voted on directly. 

It would be a federal system with wide latitude given to the individual states in domestic affairs. 

I'd probably have some sort of cursus honorum, where in to get elected or appointed to higher office you'd have to have served some lower office, like the romans. 

The power of the feds would be severely limited as it was 20 years ago. 

I'd consider giving the ex-executives some sort of position too.  Maybe the ability to try current executives in impeachment hearings or the ability to meat and veto the actions of current executives via super majority of the  former execs.   

The supreme court would be a panel of judges with 7, 9, or 11 members with a single term equal to 2x the number of justices in years with one up appointment every 2 years.  This insulates them from popular opinion and defangs the political fight over appointments. 


So being an experienced capitalist doesn't qualify one for public office, experience not being a capitalist makes you eligible to run for public office.   Wow, that's going to end well for the economy ...
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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