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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Design-A-Country (Read 1447 times)
The Opposition
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Design-A-Country
Feb 10th, 2019 at 6:28pm
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Outline which laws you will have and which laws you will not have. Be as broad or as specific as you like.

Choose a governmental style. Will you have a hereditary monarchy or elections, or something else?

Will you have a constitution? Will it be absolute? If it can be changed, how would one go about that? If so, and it gets corrupted beyond all recognition, what's the procedure to restore it?

How will your country guard against corruption?

Choose a subset of people to fill your country with, or any mix thereof. Do you want conservatives? Leftists? Asians? Hispanics? Tall people? Beautiful ones? Hard workers? People who will have a lot of babies, or people who will have replacement value, or less than that?

Do you want your people to be smart, or stupid, or somewhere in-between?

Do you want your people to be extremely obedient to your laws, or extremely strong-willed, willing to break any law they disagree with and fight for any right they think they have that you do not respect? Something in-between?

How will you deal with criminals? Kid gloves, meaning no punishment at all, with a focus on teaching them better behaviour, or extremely brutal, or something in the middle? Will you have the death penalty? Will criminals work to fund their imprisonment, or will that burden fall to the law-abiding?

What will your justice system be like? Will judges and juries (or something else) decide every issue on a case-by-case basis, or will there be clear laws?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #1 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 6:41pm
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Yawn.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #2 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 6:43pm
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Limited Constitutional republic. Privately-run Courts Law enforcement, and Military.  Volunteer Militia.

There will be ONE Federal Supreme Court of Nine elected jurors. This will be primarily an appellate Court for ruling on cases which the lower Courts cannot handle, for whatever reason. 

Volunteer Jurors in Lower Courts.

Strict 4 year Term Limit for all elected public office, incl. Supreme Court Jurors.  No Exceptions.  Period.

Limited and merit-based immigration policy.   Strong borders.  Privately patrolled.   Daily Guest Visa auctions.  Tall, good-looking Asians preferred.

No Income Tax. Ever.  If any elected official tries to pass any form Income Tax, instant banishment on conviction by Court. No appeals.  Citizenship is summarily revoked. The offender will be escorted to the border gates.

Federal Sales Tax may never exceed 3%.  Local Sales Tax may never exceed 5%.  No exceptions.   If any elected official tries to pass any tax above the 3% (fed) or the 5% (local) limits,  instant banishment on conviction by Court. No appeals.  Citizenship is summarily revoked. The offender will be escorted to the border gates.

No Federal prisons.  Local privately run jails for holding violent offenders.  Incarceration is never used as punishment. Fines proportional to the crime will be imposed. Assault convictions will typically cost in the thousands - ranging from $2500 to $75000, depending on the severity of injuries.

Wrongful Death and Manslaughter convictions may cost anywhere from $155k to $800k.

Murder convictions will always run in the millions, so Murder is a really bad idea!

Failure to pay fine(s) within specified time frame -  instant banishment on conviction by Court. No appeals.  Citizenship is summarily revoked.  The offender will be escorted to the border gates.

Don't like these laws? Stay out.  Thanks.   Smiley
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Little Big Man
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #3 - Feb 10th, 2019 at 7:56pm
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I believe that a libertarian republic would require advance planning.  A wealthy person with strong libertarian views purchases one hundred square miles from Mexico near the Mexican border.  He divides the land into lots of between one and one hundred acres.  Between each lot, there is plenty of room for free movement.  Any existing roads would be included in the free movement areas.

He selects a spot for a central city near a water source.  There he lays out one to ten acre lots for buildings and leaves lanes for free access and possible future street laying.  He also establishes lanes for water and sewage in case anyone wants to build those things.

He declares that he will govern the new nation by protecting it from invasion and providing assistance in preventing aggression by people inside the nation.  There will be no government interference with business or pleasure so long as there is no aggression.  Contract enforcement by that government will only be done if all parties to the contract agree to government enforcement at time of signing and one or more of the parties pays an enforcement fee.

The the wealthy person offers short and long-term leases on the lots, negotiating prices that will allow those limited government services to be provided. 

Then let the free market take its course.  I believe that would lead to a lot of manufacturing in that free trade zone.  If there is one thing that is plentiful along the Mexican border, it is labor.  But it may go another way completely.  People may find ways to farm in that area or it may become an artist colony.   



  

Snarky no more!
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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #4 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 6:16am
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SkyChief wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 6:43pm:
Privately-run Courts Law enforcement, and Military


So what does that mean exactly?  Are there competing companies providing multiple courts, law enforcement and military?  Or is there one for each?  How are they picked?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #5 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 7:08am
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The Opposition wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 6:28pm:
Outline which laws you will have and which laws you will not have. Be as broad or as specific as you like.

Choose a governmental style. Will you have a hereditary monarchy or elections, or something else?

Will you have a constitution? Will it be absolute? If it can be changed, how would one go about that? If so, and it gets corrupted beyond all recognition, what's the procedure to restore it?

How will your country guard against corruption?

Choose a subset of people to fill your country with, or any mix thereof. Do you want conservatives? Leftists? Asians? Hispanics? Tall people? Beautiful ones? Hard workers? People who will have a lot of babies, or people who will have replacement value, or less than that?

Do you want your people to be smart, or stupid, or somewhere in-between?

Do you want your people to be extremely obedient to your laws, or extremely strong-willed, willing to break any law they disagree with and fight for any right they think they have that you do not respect? Something in-between?

How will you deal with criminals? Kid gloves, meaning no punishment at all, with a focus on teaching them better behaviour, or extremely brutal, or something in the middle? Will you have the death penalty? Will criminals work to fund their imprisonment, or will that burden fall to the law-abiding?

What will your justice system be like? Will judges and juries (or something else) decide every issue on a case-by-case basis, or will there be clear laws?


Start with the one we have, except:

- Ban all taxes other than sales taxes and use taxes and limit those as Skychief proposed

- Require that all laws increasing taxes be ratified by 2/3 of the State legislatures before they take effect

- Mandate zero based budgeting

- Require that all laws not involving taxes be ratified by 50% + 1 of the State legislatures before they take effect

Yes, ALL Federal laws must be ratified by State legislatures

- Take away judicial review and have States responsible for protecting the Constitution.  Any Federal law (including ones ratified by the States) can be struck down with a 50%+1 vote of the State legislatures.  Technically they don't need to argue that what they are striking down is Unconstitutional, they can just strike down any Federal law even though they had to have previously ratified the law.  So you can never sustain any Federal law without it continuing to be supported by over half the States.  Repealing any law can be proposed in any State legislature.

Power divided is power checked.  The goal is to have congressmen and senators want to be in the State legislatures where they have more power as the Federal legislature has little power
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #6 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:07am
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kaz wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 7:08am:
Start with the one we have, except:

- Ban all taxes other than sales taxes and use taxes and limit those as Skychief proposed

- Require that all laws increasing taxes be ratified by 2/3 of the State legislatures before they take effect

- Mandate zero based budgeting

- Require that all laws not involving taxes be ratified by 50% + 1 of the State legislatures before they take effect

Yes, ALL Federal laws must be ratified by State legislatures

- Take away judicial review and have States responsible for protecting the Constitution.  Any Federal law (including ones ratified by the States) can be struck down with a 50%+1 vote of the State legislatures.  Technically they don't need to argue that what they are striking down is Unconstitutional, they can just strike down any Federal law even though they had to have previously ratified the law.  So you can never sustain any Federal law without it continuing to be supported by over half the States.  Repealing any law can be proposed in any State legislature.

Power divided is power checked.  The goal is to have congressmen and senators want to be in the State legislatures where they have more power as the Federal legislature has little power
The existing limitations on the taxing power would be extremely effective if we used them, probably better than defined percentage limits.

The power of the states could be restored more easily be repealing the 17th Amendment, return to the state legislators power over who will represent them in the Senate.

You give the state legislatures far to much power by letting them control the Constitution with a simple majority. A tyranny of a simple majority of state legislatures is not an improvement over the tyranny of a federal government that has usurped unlimited power.


  

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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #7 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:13am
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Jeff wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:07am:
The existing limitations on the taxing power would be extremely effective if we used them, probably better than defined percentage limits.

The power of the states could be restored more easily be repealing the 17th Amendment, give the state legislators power over who will represent them in the Senate.

You give the state legislatures far to much power by letting them control the Constitution with a simple majority. A tyranny of a simple majority of state legislatures is not an improvement over the tyranny of a federal government that has usurped unlimited power.




It takes a majority of the legislators in a majority of the legislatures voting and you call that a low threshold?  Two thirds for tax increases.

Oy Vey, no wonder I don't take you seriously.

Oh, but having the legislatures able to appoint two senators is a higher standard.  Sure it is.  Unbelievable.  BTW, many of the States already had elected Senators, not legislature appointed Senators.  The Constitution did not mandate the legislatures appoint the Senators
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #8 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:16am
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Little Big Man wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 7:56pm:
I believe that {that is an unnecessary filler word that adds no value} a libertarian republic would require advance planning.  A wealthy person with strong libertarian views purchases one hundred square miles from Mexico near the Mexican border.  He divides the land into lots of between one and one hundred acres.  Between each lot, there is plenty of room for free movement{awkward}.  Any existing roads would be included in the free movement areas.

He selects a spot for a central city near a water source.  There he lays out one to ten acre lots for buildings and leaves lanes for free access and possible future street laying{Awkward}.  He also establishes lanes for water and sewage in case anyone wants to build those things{wordy}.

He declares that {again, delete filler word}he will govern the new nation by protecting it from invasion and providing assistance in preventing aggression by people inside the nation.  There will be no government interference with business or pleasure so long as there is no aggression.  Contract enforcement by that government will only be done if all parties to the contract agree to government enforcement at time of signing and one or more of the parties pays an enforcement fee.

The the wealthy person offers short and long-term leases on the lots,{There should be no comma here.  You have an independent clause followed by a dependent clause.  You don't use a comma for that} negotiating prices that will allow those limited government services to be provided. 

Then {however, there should be a comma when you start a sentence with a conjunction }let the free market take its course.  I believe that would lead to a lot of manufacturing in that free trade zone.  If there is one thing that is plentiful along the Mexican border, it is labor.  But it may go another way completely.  People may find ways to farm in that area or it may become an artist colony.   {now there should be a comma.  You have IC or IC, it should be IC, or IC.  Did you ever study commas?  You clearly don't know how to use them.}





How do we know the wealthy man owns the land?  Mexico is going to decide that and leave him alone?  The seller said they owned it, so did 12 other people, including some who lived on areas of the land.  And he's going to protect us from China?  What a joke.

Hey, can you tell me the one again where you're an anarchist and burnsred is an Indian?  Oh wait, you just did ...
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Design-A-Country
Reply #9 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:42am
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kaz wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 9:13am:
It takes a majority of the legislators in a majority of the legislatures voting and you call that a low threshold?  Two thirds for tax increases.

You give that simple majority power over the Constitution.

I like Article V's 3/4 requirement much better. Smiley
  

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