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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action? (Read 806 times)
roycarn
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #20 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:49pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 8:36am:
Um ... OK.  So you obviously don't follow American politics.   Interesting you chose to write on an American political message board then.  So where are you from that environmentalists are actually concerned with the environment?  Sounds cool.  It's not the case here.  Our environmentalists are Marxists.  They don't care about the environment at all.  They just want to elect politicians in the name of the environment who will crush us with government spending


Hmm.  And you don't follow environment issues either.  Asking butt stupid questions is not an effective debate tactic if you want to get anywhere.  It's just being a pest.  A car in the US generates 4% the emissions a car in the sixties did.  Our power production produces a fraction of what power plants used to produce.  We generate so much more energy than in the sixties, yet our emissions are about the same.

Again, I'm going to lose interest in this fast if you're going to pretend you don't know anything about anything


Surrrrreeeeeee you don't.  Skippy.

Both for example a feminist and an environmentalist could chose to be Democrats.   But why would the environmentalist have the exact same positions as the feminist on environmentalism, feminism, the military, socialism and every other issue?


You know what would be nice here? Some evidence backing you up. I see a lot of assertions presently unsupported by fact.
  
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roycarn
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #21 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:50pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 2:25pm:
Seriously?  You don't know how cap and tax would further socialism?  That's their carbon tax plan.

You're so naive.  Government never does anything that is designed to accomplish its stated goal.  Ever


You obviously don't seem like someone to give their ideological opponents any good faith. As such, I have no desire to see this conversation go anywhere.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #22 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:54pm
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roycarn wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:50pm:
You obviously don't seem like someone to give their ideological opponents any good faith. As such, I have no desire to see this conversation go anywhere.

Welcome to the libertarian's forum.
  
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ahhell
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #23 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:58pm
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Jeff wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 7:00am:
You do understand that this has a deterrent effect, right?

If I know that my actions that result in polluting your well will result in my having to provide you and your family with clean safe water as long as you live in your house, and to the rest of the people whose wells are drawing from the same water source as well, I am likely to be very careful to not pollute your water.

If I will be held responsible for polluting your water with something that causes illness or physical harm to you or your family and neighbors, and I know I am likely to be financially ruined and perhaps jailed for reckless endangerment, I will be even more careful.

So lets assume that anthropogenic climate change is real. Who is going to be deterred by this threat?  Pretty much everyone is complicit and pretty much everyone will be a victim.  Well, except Canada and the Nordics, they'll likely benefit.  Who is going to pay for who?  Long dead drivers of gas gusslers?
  
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kaz
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #24 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 4:18pm
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roycarn wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:49pm:
You know what would be nice here? Some evidence backing you up. I see a lot of assertions presently unsupported by fact.



Such as ...
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #25 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 4:18pm
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roycarn wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:50pm:
You obviously don't seem like someone to give their ideological opponents any good faith. As such, I have no desire to see this conversation go anywhere.


I don't trust any politicians.  If you do, then you're a fool.

As for Democrats, judging them by their actions rather than their words is just basic common sense
  

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ahhell
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #26 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 5:08pm
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kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
I don't trust any politicians.  If you do, then you're a fool.

As for Democrats, judging them by their actions rather than their words is just basic common sense
Democrats are different in this regard than others? 

kaz wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 4:18pm:
Such as ...

It was your claim, perhaps you should provide the evidence. 

I would genuinely like an explanation for who a tax on emissions would advance the socialist agenda more than curb emissions.

Also, I've heard of cap and trade and carbon taxes but not cap and tax.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #27 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 5:37pm
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ahhell wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:58pm:
So lets assume that anthropogenic climate change is real. Who is going to be deterred by this threat?


No one, but that's okay.

This is one of the flaws of capitalism, and it's true that in some cases, the moral really is rake it all in as fast as possible and ruin everything you can for 1% more profits, because that happens later and you'll be way out of town by then.

The silver lining is that no one can compromise your freedom by making outlandish claims about how you sneezed and caused the apocalypse in Twelve Monkeys. They have to prove that too.

If you really believe anthropogenic global warming is catastrophic, your focus should be on proving that, so it can be addressed.

Even if it is real, the catastrophic result will be a world without as many free resources to ruin. Those who thrive will be the most conservative with their resources, rather than those who simply grab the most free resources.

Maybe we'll have to farm our own oxygen, and that's not a bad thing in a capitalist world.

The answer to everyone complaining that the bison are being exploited is to let them be exploited and run out. Those who take a few bison for themselves and farm them will win in the long run.

A capitalist world may simply be a world without free resources, or animals that do not benefit Humans. Environmentalists who claim that every round little owl who needs ten square miles of territory to flourish in will not be heard. If that owl is worth it to you, harvest a pair and breed them. If you're correct that it's valuable, your investment will pay off. If not, you'll go out of business.

If even just a tiny few Humans are truly ready to properly gauge the value of all the resources in their environment, this will work fine, even if it won't necessarily be a beautiful world.

If not even a few Humans have the right idea about how the Earth actually keeps them alive, well... you all gon' die.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #28 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 6:31pm
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roycarn wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:50pm:
You obviously don't seem like someone to give their ideological opponents any good faith. As such, I have no desire to see this conversation go anywhere.
Where do you want it to go?
  

"Free hate speech"
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Jeff
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Re: Is there a Libertarian case for Climate Action?
Reply #29 - Feb 18th, 2019 at 6:33pm
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ahhell wrote on Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:58pm:
So lets assume that anthropogenic climate change is real. Who is going to be deterred by this threat?
Who says it's a threat? I think it's a menace!
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