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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault (Read 1459 times)
Jeff
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #140 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 5:42pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 5:11pm:
Jeff:  OK, kaz, here's a quote where you didn't say what I said
But you did. I quoted your statement.
  
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kaz
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #141 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:33pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 5:42pm:
But you did. I quoted your statement.


Nowhere in where you quoted me did I say I support random stops for ID checks, you lying, drunken sack of cow vomit
  

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Jeff
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #142 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:03am
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kaz wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:33pm:
Nowhere in where you quoted me did I say I support random stops for ID checks, you lying, drunken sack of cow vomit
Please explain what you meant when you said this-

"I have never been asked for an ID from a policeman other than in my car, which they do have a right to request since was driving on a public road."

Thanks.
  
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #143 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:50am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:03am:
Please explain what you meant when you said this-

"I have never been asked for an ID from a policeman other than in my car, which they do have a right to request since was driving on a public road."

Thanks.


I already answered that.  If they pull you over for a valid reason, they can ID you.  You're operating a vehicle on roads they are responsible for patrolling.  This is the stupid shit that responding to you always entails.  Yeah, Jeff, I'm a Nazi who thinks the police can check your "papers."  Go screw yourself, mindless sot
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #144 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:52am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
What the police can exercise in the line of accomplishing their official duties are powers granted to them. Language is important, and talking as if powers granted to government are "rights" is dangerous and wrong.


But acting as if the powers granted to governments are rights is even more dangerous.  That is what those police are doing.  They are getting pumped up over their "right" to ID anyone they want to, and are being encouraged in that by superiors who tell them, "make sure you ID whoever you make contact with so you report is complete." 

Then we wonder how police end up shooting innocent people in the back for pulling up their pants.


  

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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #145 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:54am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:52am:
But acting as if the powers granted to governments are rights is even more dangerous.  That is what those police are doing.  They are getting pumped up over their "right" to ID anyone they want to, and are being encouraged in that by superiors who tell them, "make sure you ID whoever you make contact with so you report is complete." 

Then we wonder how police end up shooting innocent people in the back for pulling up their pants.




Trollin, trollin, trollin ...

Yeah, the cops are always shooting people pulling up their pants.  Happens all the times.  You've seen it literally hundreds of times on youtube ...
  

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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #146 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:00am
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Jeff wrote yesterday at 10:48am:
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What? Police have certain limited powers granted to them so they can accomplish the duties set out for them. "Right" is the wrong word.


The Opposition wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 1:31pm:
This is just language manipulation. We already use the word rights to describe what we may legitimately do, and that's what he's asking.



That's exactly right.  I've asked Jeff numerous times to give me the difference between a "government power" and an "individual right."  He won't because there is only one difference:  government actually enforces its powers, while it only gives lip service to individual rights.


  

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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #147 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:10am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:00am:
Jeff wrote yesterday at 10:48am:


That's exactly right.  I've asked Jeff numerous times to give me the difference between a "government power" and an "individual right."  He won't because there is only one difference:  government actually enforces its powers, while it only gives lip service to individual rights.




In the narrow discussion of government legitimacy, the difference between a government power and an individual right is that the government power was ceded to government by the people from our natural rights.  Inherently, the people hold all rights and government none.  But we cede specific, enumerated powers for things like defense and law enforcement and the power to tax because dying isn't freedom.

However, in Jeff's case, he's just being a total dick about it.  There is no difference in every day usage of the word "right" and "power"
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #148 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:27am
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kaz wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:10am:
However, in Jeff's case, he's just being a total dick about it.  There is no difference in every day usage of the word "right" and "power"


Yes, unfortunately, we put up with that as the price of exchanging views on the internet.

Quote:
In the narrow discussion of government legitimacy, the difference between a government power and an individual right is that the government power was ceded to government by the people from our natural rights.  Inherently, the people hold all rights and government none.  But we cede specific, enumerated powers for things like defense and law enforcement and the power to tax because dying isn't freedom.


So the part in bold interests me.  I agree that the people can only cede powers to government that come from their rights.  For example, the right to self-defense can readily be converted into power for the police to arrest people for assault, murder, etc.  So the power to arrest violent criminals originates from the right to self defense.  That being agreed, can you tell me from which natural right does the power to tax originate?

Does the part in blue mean that you are or that we must be willing to trade freedom for safety? 

Does a free man who dies fighting a tyrant lose his freedom or preserve it?









  

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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #149 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 11:45am
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I mean, you could turn the question around and instead of asking if the government has the right to do X to a person, just ask if the person has a right to refuse having X done to him.

There are no positive rights. There are no rights to do anything.

When we ask if we have a right to do X, what we're really asking is if anyone else has a legitimate negative right that prevents us from doing X.

So instead of asking if the police have a right to take my chicken, I want to know if I have a legitimate negative right not to have my chicken taken.

I do not, because others have legitimate negative rights not to catch bird flu.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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