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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault (Read 2170 times)
Jeff
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #150 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 1:44pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:50am:
I already answered that.  If they pull you over for a valid reason, they can ID you.
That's not what you said, but thanks for clearing it up.

"...which they do have a right to request since was driving on a public road" is not the same as "they do have the authority to request when you break the law."
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #151 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 1:46pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:52am:
But acting as if the powers granted to governments are rights is even more dangerous.  That is what those police are doing.  They are getting pumped up over their "right" to ID anyone they want to, and are being encouraged in that by superiors who tell them, "make sure you ID whoever you make contact with so you report is complete." 

Then we wonder how police end up shooting innocent people in the back for pulling up their pants.


Yes, and it's just as dangerous for everyone else to start believing that powers granted to government employees are actually rights.
  
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #152 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 1:49pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:00am:
That's exactly right.  I've asked Jeff numerous times to give me the difference between a "government power" and an "individual right."  He won't...
I've told you repeatedly that rights are things everyone is born with, while powers are  granted to governments by the people when they create governments.

No one is born with the power to lay and collect taxes. Everyone is born with the right to speak freely.

Can you see the difference? Probably not.
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #153 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 1:52pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:10am:
However, in Jeff's case, he's just being a total dick about it.  There is no difference in every day usage of the word "right" and "power"
We've been talking about police powers. That means it's in the context of government, so "every day usage" is not applicable in this discussion.
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #154 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 1:58pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:27am:
Does the part in blue mean that you are or that we must be willing to trade freedom for safety? 
The part you highlighted blue is just fluff.

If you want to have a government protect your life and liberty and property, you have to find a way to pay for the government so that it exists to do that. Granting the government limited powers of taxation is how it is best accomplished.

I know you think having to pay any taxes at all makes you a "slave", but that is just your usual hyperbolic nonsense.

In any case, having police and courts and jails won't make you safe, it just helps to keep the entire society somewhat civilized.
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #155 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:00pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 11:45am:
There are no rights to do anything.
I have a right to say you are absolutely wrong in this assertion, so I just did!
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #156 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:06pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 1:49pm:
I've told you repeatedly that rights are things everyone is born with, while powers are  granted to governments by the people when they create governments.

No one is born with the power to lay and collect taxes. Everyone is born with the right to speak freely.


If no one has the power to lay and collect taxes, how can they possible give a government that they form the power to lay and collect taxes?

Speak freely and tell me what you really think:  that people as a collective have more powers than individuals and that those collective powers rightfully trump individual rights.

That's what you think, so I'll respect you more if you admit it.



  

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Jeff
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #157 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:22pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:06pm:
If no one has the power to lay and collect taxes, how can they possible give a government that they form the power to lay and collect taxes?
It comes along hand in glove with their right to form governments. Denying that a right exists to grant a government you create the power to sustain itself with taxation is to effectively deny the right to form a government.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #158 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 3:21pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:22pm:
It comes along hand in glove with their right to form governments. Denying that a right exists to grant a government you create the power to sustain itself with taxation is to effectively deny the right to form a government.


Is this "right to form a government that taxes," absolute?

Where does it come from?  What is your evidence for its existence?

What is the absolute minimum requirement for a government?  How many people and what percentage of them must agree before it can morally start taxing the beJesus out of everyone?


  

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Re: 1st, 2nd, Police Accountability Activist Arrested for Sex Assault
Reply #159 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 3:34pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 3:21pm:
Is this "right to form a government that taxes," absolute?
Not from the standpoint of morality.
  
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