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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Voluntary taxes - the reality (Read 422 times)
kaz
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #10 - Mar 6th, 2019 at 5:10pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 6th, 2019 at 10:29am:
I've never said anything remotely like that. What I have said is that if mind scientists tried to deliberately design an environment that would push mildly neurotic kids into becoming murderous sociopaths and suicidal spree killers, what they designed would be very much like our tax-funded government schools.


Who decided who the real minutemen were?  Who decides who the real neighborhood watch people are?


There will be far less of it.


I think you intended to ask something there, but I'm not sure what.




Are libertarians easy to troll or what?  You hit the jackpot.  Sure, bud.  Men after work, guys who live in their mom's basements, shoplifters, heroin dealers, inner city gangs.  They can all be cops!  It's up to them.

Oh, and you're not a troll and you're not an anarchist.

That crap does sell on this board though.  Libertarians are in the 1% now and crave to be in the 1% of that 1%.  They'll buy any shit you peddle as long as it serves their quest to become anarchists
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #11 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 8:52am
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kaz wrote on Mar 6th, 2019 at 5:10pm:
Are libertarians easy to troll or what?


That crap does sell on this board though.  Libertarians are in the 1% now and crave to be in the 1% of that 1%.  They'll buy any shit you peddle as long as it serves their quest to become anarchists
You know it's often impossible to tell when you are being serious.
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:26am by Jeff »  
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The Opposition
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #12 - Mar 7th, 2019 at 10:52am
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kaz wrote on Mar 6th, 2019 at 5:16pm:
This is exactly why I've been talking about my Epiphany that libertarians and I may have the same policies but are nothing alike.  I want to actually in the real world live in liberty, not die in theoretical purity


That's what I want too, but I've subjugated my wants to the NAP because the NAP is right.

I have my pet issue too, where I want to say, well, rights aren't absolute and if I can get more practical liberty out of restricting Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube from deplatforming conservative opinions, I want to violate YouTube's rights, get that law, and have more practical freedom of speech, I'd sure like that!

But that would be wrong, wouldn't it? Of course it would, because even if the people paying off these companies end up owning the entire internet, not just most of it, they have rights - property rights. This time, property rights are absolute, you see.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #13 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:28am
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 at 10:52am:
That's what I want too, but I've subjugated my wants to the NAP because the NAP is right.

I have my pet issue too, where I want to say, well, rights aren't absolute and if I can get more practical liberty out of restricting Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube from deplatforming conservative opinions, I want to violate YouTube's rights, get that law, and have more practical freedom of speech, I'd sure like that!

But that would be wrong, wouldn't it? Of course it would, because even if the people paying off these companies end up owning the entire internet, not just most of it, they have rights - property rights. This time, property rights are absolute, you see.
You worry about monopolies and suggest that the solution is to restrict businesses when the real solution is to insure that regulations aren't restricting free competition.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #14 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 2:26pm
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The Libertarian Party has some odd views on taxation and ways to fund essential government function(s).

"Since we believe that every man is entitled to keep the fruits of his labor, we are opposed to all government activity which consists of the forcible collection money or goods from citizens in violation of their individual rights. Specifically, we support the eventual repeal of ALL taxation."

Then, on the very same page, they say:

"We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression."

What they don't say is how a sufficient Military can be maintained without some form of funding.

It kinda doesn't make any sense.   
« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2019 at 12:04am by SkyChief »  
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The Opposition
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #15 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 3:02pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:28am:
You worry about monopolies and suggest that the solution is to restrict businesses when the real solution is to insure that regulations aren't restricting free competition.


The solution is to follow the NAP no matter what the result of that is.

The fact that you feel you need to insist the free market won't generate monopolies suggests you don't believe in the free market at all.

Why should it matter that OHSA actually does keep workers safe? It's unlibertarian. The way you childishly insist that the free market is perfect and regulations can only hurt, makes people think you're intentionally lying.

But then, when you have your pet issues, the government is suddenly better at doing at least some things, like educating children.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #16 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 3:23pm
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 13th, 2019 at 3:02pm:
Why should it matter that OHSA actually does keep workers safe?


OSHA makes workers safe by killing jobs.  They kill more jobs than any other government agency.  They are a socialist's dream
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Little Big Man
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #17 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 11:10am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 13th, 2019 at 2:26pm:
The Libertarian Party has some odd views on taxation and ways to fund essential government function(s).

"Since we believe that every man is entitled to keep the fruits of his labor, we are opposed to all government activity which consists of the forcible collection money or goods from citizens in violation of their individual rights. Specifically, we support the eventual repeal of ALL taxation."

Then, on the very same page, they say:

"We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression."

What they don't say is how a sufficient Military can be maintained without some form of funding.

It kinda doesn't make any sense.   




The key word is “eventual,” which is in the line about ending taxation, but not in the line about a sufficient military.

They surely don’t mean to say that we can end taxes tomorrow and still have the huge bloated military we need to defend ourselves from all the nations and people in the world that we give reason to hate us.

It’s intended to be a gradual process.  It may seem impossible that we would ever get to the point that we can maintain defense without taxation.  Back when Malthus predicted that the population would grow to unsustainable levels due to rising wealth causing birth rates to rise even faster, that was accepted and anyone who didn’t accept it was condemned for not “accepting science.”  Yet, thanks to advances in farming technology, there is plenty of food for everyone and thanks to advances in manufacturing and information technology, there are plenty of non-farm jobs that allow people to earn wealth with which to purchase food. 

The only exception to the above is when government interferes in the economy.

It may well be that unpredicted advances will allow us to live without having to make the Hobson’s choice between being extorted, murdered, enslaved and robbed of all we have or paying government to extort, murder, enslave and rob us but for only half of all we have.

If we wanted to, we could easily start that process by stopping the process of constantly interfering with other countries and other people.  Then we can go down the road toward the place where defense can be paid for without theft. 

Having eliminating taxes as an eventual goal while realizing it will take many years and many changes to bring about is a much different attitude than that of the tax-and-spenders on here who constantly extol the virtue of government providing things like public education using extorted money.







  

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SkyChief
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #18 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 12:25pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 11:10am:
They surely don’t mean to say that we can end taxes tomorrow and still have the huge bloated military we need to defend ourselves from all the nations and people in the world that we give reason to hate us.

It’s intended to be a gradual process. 

It's unattainable.   If ALL taxation is repealed, who (or what) will fund the Military?

Private donations?

The LP painted themselves into a corner.  Just one word could fix their error:   Income.

The statement should read:

Since we believe that every man is entitled to keep the fruits of his labor, we are opposed to all government activity which consists of the forcible collection money or goods from citizens in violation of their individual rights. Specifically, we support the eventual repeal of INCOME taxation.

Little Big Man wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 11:10am:
If we wanted to, we could easily start that process by stopping the process of constantly interfering with other countries and other people.  Then we can go down the road toward the place where defense can be paid for without theft. 
The US is the World Police.  The US will always intervene in foreign affairs.

That requires a lot of funding!   I agree it should stop, but it won't stop until the economy collapses and the Military no longer gets any funding by taxpayers.     The way things are going, that might happen soon.

Little Big Man wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 11:10am:
It may seem impossible that we would ever get to the point that we can maintain defense without taxation.

That does seem impossible. 
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Voluntary taxes - the reality
Reply #19 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 4:19pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 12:25pm:
It's unattainable.   If ALL taxation is repealed, who (or what) will fund the Military?

Private donations?

The LP painted themselves into a corner.  Just one word could fix their error:   Income.

The statement should read:

Since we believe that every man is entitled to keep the fruits of his labor, we are opposed to all government activity which consists of the forcible collection money or goods from citizens in violation of their individual rights. Specifically, we support the eventual repeal of INCOME taxation.

The US is the World Police.  The US will always intervene in foreign affairs.

That requires a lot of funding!   I agree it should stop, but it won't stop until the economy collapses and the Military no longer gets any funding by taxpayers.     The way things are going, that might happen soon.

That does seem impossible. 


Well, of course no one is going to voluntarily fund a military like the one we have now.  Anyone with half a brain knows that a country with a large ocean on one side, a giant ocean on the other side, a strong ally to our north and a weak third world nation to our south doesn’t need a military as bloated as ours for “defense.”

It is funded by theft, because no one would voluntarily pay for it.  Which brings up the question, “why are we spending money on something no one wants, if this is a republic?”

How large a military do you want us to have, and I’ll try and see if it could be funded voluntarily?


  

Snarky no more!
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