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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Tale of Two Socialisms (Read 2259 times)
Jeff
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #40 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 10:22am
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kaz wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 7:30am:
So I said if you work hard, care about your job, are reliable and invest in yourself, you won't be poor.  So when you said only a few people are successful if they do that, not most, you meant that it's harder to do.  Even if they do those things, they will still be poor because it's harder.  That's what you meant.

And how, Jeff, is it "harder?" Why can't someone get a job and work hard exactly Jeff?  There are lots of jobs out there.  How can someone not care enough about their life to not want to be poor? 

Here's the 411, Jeff, it's called "work" for a reason."  We work ... to live.  I sure the shit don't want to be poor.  I'm willing to work to not be poor.  No one gives me a living because I'm white and male despite the stupid crap coming from the Democrats.

The poor are poor because of their own poor choices.  All of them
While what you say about getting a job and working at it, and the value of education and training is undeniable, it is also true that our governments have made it more and more difficult to start businesses, which means there are fewer jobs available, and inflation has made everything more and more expensive, so that some working people have become poor when they previously were not.

Many working people have also lost their jobs due to advances in technology that have made their jobs obsolete, or because the company they worked for was driven out of business by competition, and many of those people, who might have spent many years working at the same job, find themselves competing for jobs with younger people who have trained for jobs that didn't exist a few years ago.

It is simply not true that all poor people are poor because of their own choices.
  
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Jeff
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #41 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 10:25am
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BobK71 wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 9:16am:
This is not a sales tax.  Gold and silver are a store of value...
Gold and silver currently have the status of commodities. Sales taxes apply to the purchase or sale of commodities.

The capital gains tax you mentioned only applies if you buy and hold commodities and they go up in price so that you profit by having capital gains.
  
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kaz
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #42 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 10:30am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 10:22am:
While what you say about getting a job and working at it, and the value of education and training is undeniable, it is also true that our governments have made it more and more difficult to start businesses, which means there are fewer jobs available, and inflation has made everything more and more expensive, so that some working people have become poor when they previously were not.

Many working people have also lost their jobs due to advances in technology that have made their jobs obsolete, or because the company they worked for was driven out of business by competition, and many of those people, who might have spent many years working at the same job, find themselves competing for jobs with younger people who have trained for jobs that didn't exist a few years ago.

It is simply not true that all poor people are poor because of their own choices.


And yet we have full employment ...

Trump isn't even actually "good" for the economy.  He's just less bad and look at how it's booming.

Your contention that a poor person is not capable of getting a job, working at it, and then getting more and more better jobs is cynical, pathetic and racist.  Of course they can
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #43 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 10:30am
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kaz wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 9:42am:
Now I'm about to start my dream job that combines everything I've done into a great role at a VC company.  I'll get a great salary and a share of the profits for any company I help go IPO.
I thought you were working for a big international bank?
  
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Jeff
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #44 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 10:31am
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BobK71 wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 9:44am:
...the US could easily have pressured China successfully by trade sanctions.
So you too agree with Trump that trade wars are a good thing.
  
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kaz
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #45 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 10:32am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 10:30am:
I thought you were working for a big international bank?


Yes, I am.  Technically, I'm working on a consulting contract.  I'm not an employee.  Not that it matters.

So, how does that contradict my quote?  Maybe crayons will help

kaz:  Now I'm about to start my dream job that combines everything I've done into a great role at a VC company.  I'll get a great salary and a share of the profits for any company I help go IPO.

I'll be at the bank probably a couple more months.  My contract is through the fall, but I've been there over a year so I can leave without burning bridges.

I know you're used to being told what shelf to stock, you're not familiar with senior management jobs.  Yes, technically that also means my new job could fall through.  There are no guarantees.  I am used to it, I've been in management 30 years.  For a big hit, you have to take a big swing.

Any questions?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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SkyChief
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #46 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 12:15pm
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BobK71 wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 9:16am:
Gold and silver are a store of value wealth, and should be a means of exchange if holders choose to use them as such. 
Fiixed it for ya, Bob.   Wink
  
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SkyChief
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #47 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 12:18pm
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BobK71 wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 9:16am:
Gold and silver are a store of value wealth, and should be a means of exchange if holders choose to use them as such. 
Fiixed it for ya, Bob.   Wink

"Gold is money.  Everything else is credit." -  J. P. Morgan
  
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BobK71
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #48 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 12:57pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 9:47am:
I'm not a socialist as you are.  Our government should not interfere in free trade.  The argument that government should decide who, when, where and how we trade doesn't resonate with me.  Trade wars are taxes on US consumers.  Let US business deal with our own issues.  We're up to it


Trade is only as free as the price of everything.  When one country uses state power to cheapen its currency artificially, *all* prices are set by the state, and there is no free trade.  To use trade sanctions as pressure to force that government to stop buying dollars with newly printed yuan would be an attempt to return to free trade.
  
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BobK71
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Re: A Tale of Two Socialisms
Reply #49 - Mar 11th, 2019 at 1:19pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Take off the tin foil.  America has screwed a lot up.  But by blaming us for everything, even things we oppose, you show yourself to just be an America hating nut job undercutting your own credibility.


Believe it or not, I used to be a profound admirer of America.  Whatever positive character of America you could think of, I could probably glorify it even better.  I swallowed the college-level mainstream education (specifically the Adams Smith, George Orwell, and monetary-policy-as-social-good parts) line, sink and hook.

After I started looking into finance and money (that is, really looking,) however, I realized the whole thing was fraudulent (though intelligently tacking as close to real free-market-and-democracy as possible.)  For a long time, I either couldn't or didn't want to understand that military power was an equal partner in the imperial game to financial engineering, as no country on this earth would believe in American paper without the ultimate threat of military 'intervention.'

America is by no means unique.  It is (tragically) only the last in a string of global empires that rose, issued too much debt, and fell without any hope of restoration.  (With Spain, the Netherlands, and Britain going before it, in that order.)
  
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