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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Morality Vs. Practicality (Read 657 times)
Little Big Man
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Morality Vs. Practicality
Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:37am
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This seems to be the root of most of the debate between statists and libertarians on the board.  The libertarians ask the statists to justify their stance morallly and the statists ignore that request and talk about the many practical benefits of more government (than libertarians want).

But it only seems that way.  In actual fact, libertarianism is far more practical than statism.  It is not practical at all for successful people to be forced to send their children to inferior government schools on the justification that then the children of the poor can also go to inferior schools.  The children of the successful need good schools not inferior ones and the children of the poor, if anything,need superior schools.  Inferior schools will do more harm than good for that population.  The superior schools might be provided by charitable foundations,businesses, and churches, but never by government.

It is completely impractical for me to be forced to pay money I worked for so that government will take care of people who are unable to work.  Because that will always lead to government also taking care of people who choose not to work.

It is practical for the free market to operate without taxes and without regulations so that government can offer services to voluntary consumers of that service.  Anyone who understands the free market knows that this is the best way to provide high quality services of any kind.  It is impractical to tax me to provide police in neighborhoods in which the people (often rightfully) fear police more than criminals.

Etc.
  

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kaz
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #1 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:39am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:37am:
This seems to be the root of most of the debate between statists and libertarians on the board.  The libertarians ask the statists to justify their stance morallly and the statists ignore that request and talk about the many practical benefits of more government (than libertarians want).

But it only seems that way.  In actual face, libertarianism is far more practical than statism.  It is not practical at all for successful people to be forced to send their children to inferior government schools on the justification that then the children of them poor can also go to inferior schools.  The children of the successful need good schools not inferior ones and the children of the poor need superior schools.  Inferior schools will do more harm than good for that population.  The superior schools might be provided by charitable foundations and churches, but never by government.

It is completely impractical for me to be forced to pay money I worked for so that government will take care of people who are unable to work.  Because that will always lead to government also taking care of people who choose not to work.

It is practical for the free market to operate without taxes and without regulations so that government can offer services to voluntary consumers of that service.  Anyone who understands the free market knows that this is the best way to provide high quality services of any kind.  It is impractical to tax me to provide police in neighborhoods in which the people (often rightfully) fear police more than criminals.

Etc.


You don't know what a statist is:

#buyadictionary
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #2 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 11:06am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:37am:
It is not practical at all for successful people to be forced to send their children to inferior government schools on the justification that then the children of the poor can also go to inferior schools.


What is and is not practical depends on what you want out of this arrangement.

Successful people aren't forced to send their children to government schools anyway. They can (and do) use private schools.

While you're looking up Statist in that dictionary, you might try looking up force.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Little Big Man
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #3 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 12:37pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 11:06am:
What is and is not practical depends on what you want out of this arrangement.

Successful people aren't forced to send their children to government schools anyway. They can (and do) use private schools.

While you're looking up Statist in that dictionary, you might try looking up force.


Depends on where you draw the line for the word "successful."  If you are successful enough to afford private school and pay your "fair share" of public school, that's pretty successful. 

But a typical sales clerk married to a plumber cannot afford that, even if they have been successful in getting jobs and supporting their families.  They can pay for public school or private school, but not both.  Since education is mandatory, I would call that force.


  

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kaz
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #4 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:05pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 12:37pm:
Depends on where you draw the line for the word "successful."  If you are successful enough to afford private school and pay your "fair share" of public school, that's pretty successful. 

But a typical sales clerk married to a plumber cannot afford that, even if they have been successful in getting jobs and supporting their families.  They can pay for public school or private school, but not both.  Since education is mandatory, I would call that force.




"Force" is not being able to afford something.  Wow, Jeff making up definitions really bugs you, huh?

Most private schools are way cheaper than government schools.  If you can't afford that, you're not paying for your share of public schools
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #5 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:39pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 5:05pm:
"Force" is not being able to afford something. 


Again, since education is mandatory, I would call that force.

  

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kaz
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #6 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 8:28pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 6:39pm:
Again, since education is mandatory, I would call that force.



And so the standard turns ...

Yes, you clearly don't value education, learning or knowledge.  I agree with you there, you clearly don't
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #7 - Mar 8th, 2019 at 9:14pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 12:37pm:
Depends on where you draw the line for the word "successful."  If you are successful enough to afford private school and pay your "fair share" of public school, that's pretty successful. 

But a typical sales clerk married to a plumber cannot afford that, even if they have been successful in getting jobs and supporting their families.  They can pay for public school or private school, but not both.  Since education is mandatory, I would call that force.


Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one. The tax money is extracted by force, but as Kaz says, not being able to afford something is not force.

Since the taxation is legitimate, there's no connection between being taxed and not being able to afford private school.

The free market produces winners and losers. If you feel public school is insufficient, and you can't afford private school, don't have a kid. It's that simple.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Little Big Man
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #8 - Mar 9th, 2019 at 9:33am
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 9:14pm:
Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one. The tax money is extracted by force, but as Kaz says, not being able to afford something is not force.


When Oppo and Kaz, both ends of the intellectual spectrum, agree that I'm wrong, I have to concede.

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Since the taxation is legitimate, there's no connection between being taxed and not being able to afford private school.

The free market produces winners and losers. If you feel public school is insufficient, and you can't afford private school, don't have a kid. It's that simple.


Agreed.

  

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kaz
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #9 - Mar 9th, 2019 at 10:50am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 9th, 2019 at 9:33am:
When Oppo and Kaz, both ends of the intellectual spectrum, agree that I'm wrong, I have to concede.


Agreed.



That's funny.  People accuse me of a lot of things, but lack of intelligence isn't  one of them.  You're losing control of trying to hide your insecurities, troll.  Your insecurities are clear, which is why you troll and why you're constantly hiding from me for calling you out on it, but this is a more direct admission of them then you usually make
  

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