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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Morality Vs. Practicality (Read 432 times)
kaz
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #20 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 2:55pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
I can't stop considering Kaz's idea of what's extreme unless I read your mind. The best I can do is stop at the first instance of you declaring something extreme.


I literally laughed out loud.  And unlike the teacher troll, burnsred, I know what "literally" means.

So you don't inherently get that government harvesting the organs of healthy citizens, not being allowed to take a gun from someone who breaks into your house and burnred's mother not taking his plane he's hitting his sister with are "extreme" unless it's pointed out to you?  That's what you're saying?
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #21 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:04pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
I literally laughed out loud.  And unlike the teacher troll, burnsred, I know what "literally" means.

So you don't inherently get that government harvesting the organs of healthy citizens, not being allowed to take a gun from someone who breaks into your house and burnred's mother not taking his plane he's hitting his sister with are "extreme" unless it's pointed out to you?  That's what you're saying?


Yes, that is what I'm saying. I don't know what's allowed and what's not, and I don't know why, especially if rights aren't absolute. I'm no closer to understanding libertarianism than I was when I joined the forum.

Libertarians don't like giving honest answers to honest questions, so I don't learn anything.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #22 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:06pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:04pm:
Libertarians don't like giving honest answers to honest questions, so I don't learn anything.
You don't ask honest questions.
  
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kaz
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #23 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:19pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:04pm:
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I don't know what's allowed and what's not, and I don't know why, especially if rights aren't absolute. I'm no closer to understanding libertarianism than I was when I joined the forum.

Libertarians don't like giving honest answers to honest questions, so I don't learn anything.


You're failing because you're trying to apply black and white rules to a gray world
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #24 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:31pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:19pm:
You're failing because you're trying to apply black and white rules to a gray world


If there are no rules, then it's just whatever the biggest libertarian thinks in any given situation. There's no point even trying to learn anything.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #25 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 4:50pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
If there are no rules, then it's just whatever the biggest libertarian thinks in any given situation. There's no point even trying to learn anything.


No one said that other than the voices in your head
  

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Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #26 - Mar 10th, 2019 at 5:27pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
If there are no rules, then it's just whatever the biggest libertarian thinks in any given situation. There's no point even trying to learn anything.
If that is the world as you see it, I'd say you won't learn anything no matter what.

If you can't see things at least fairly clearly, you'd probably be best advised to get help making decisions. Smiley
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #27 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 11:19am
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kaz wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 4:50pm:
No one said that other than the voices in your head


Alright, so I'm asking you: Are there rules?

Or is everything just grey?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #28 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 12:40pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 11:19am:
Alright, so I'm asking you: Are there rules?

Yes, and the rules are used as a basis for decision making in individual cases in the real world, which are sometimes black and white but often not.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #29 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 8:30pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 10th, 2019 at 6:54am:
Allowing people to be free is moral, tyrannizing them is not.

On a practical level, individual liberty produces all sorts of different results for individuals and so does tyranny.


Wow.  Just wow.

On the spectrum from freedom to tyranny, good results for individuals are clumped on the freedom side and bad results for individuals begins to go up gradually the moment the bar is moved from the freedom side and gently slopes up as it gets to the tyranny side. 

Those are the practical results of freedom and tyranny.

Quote:
In general, a free economy will always outproduce a planned economy, but people who think an equal distribution of less (which never actually happens because the people making the decisions about distribution always get rich) is more moral will claim that a free economy is immoral.


Those who say that are either lying, flat wrong or complete fools. 

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Basically, morality v. practicality is apples and oranges.


They are as different as a hand and a glove.  But they go together, just like apples and oranges in a fruit bowl. 

Freedom is always more moral than an oppressive government and always more practical than an oppressive government.

For government to be both practical and moral, we must go to extremes to limit it.  Since you don't believe that the right to empower to tax (i.e. the right to tax) is absolute, it should be trumped by freedom in all cases.

Because I believe that the right to be free of theft is absolute.  Fortunately, being an absolutist in that case is no vice since freedom is also so crappity smacking practical.



  

Snarky no more!
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