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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Morality Vs. Practicality (Read 435 times)
Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #30 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:44am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 8:30pm:
On the spectrum from freedom to tyranny, good results for individuals are clumped on the freedom side and bad results for individuals begins to go up gradually the moment the bar is moved from the freedom side and gently slopes up as it gets to the tyranny side. 

Those are the practical results of freedom and tyranny.
Right. Just don't expect that economic freedom will bring good results to everyone all the time and understand that cronyism benefits the cronies pretty regularly.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #31 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:50am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 8:30pm:
Freedom is always more moral than an oppressive government and always more practical than an oppressive government.

For government to be both practical and moral, we must go to extremes to limit it.  Since you don't believe that the right to empower to tax (i.e. the right to tax) is absolute, it should be trumped by freedom in all cases.

Because I believe that the right to be free of theft is absolute.  Fortunately, being an absolutist in that case is no vice since freedom is also so crappity smacking practical.
Complete freedom from government is anarchy which never has and never will contribute to the protection of individual liberty.

The power to tax is limited by the Constitution in a very effective way, if only the limitations would  be applied instead of being ignored.

The enumerated powers granted to government are also very limited, with the intent of maximizing individual liberty, if only the government was held to it's enumerated powers...
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #32 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:11am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:50am:
Complete freedom from government is anarchy which never has and never will contribute to the protection of individual liberty.

The power to tax is limited by the Constitution in a very effective way, if only the limitations would  be applied instead of being ignored.

The enumerated powers granted to government are also very limited, with the intent of maximizing individual liberty, if only the government was held to it's enumerated powers...


Those ideas sounded great. 

They didn't work. 

Time to move on. 

What's the next idea?


  

Snarky no more!
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Little Big Man
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #33 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:15am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:44am:
Right. Just don't expect that economic freedom will bring good results to everyone all the time and understand that cronyism benefits the cronies pretty regularly.


I've never heard a libertarian argue that economic freedom will bring good results to everyone all the time.  In fact, that is the primary argument against economic freedom or any freedom: that it won't bring good results to everyone all the time.  Like your example of ditch digger's children not being able to afford to go to school.

It's hard to imagine how evildoers could benefit from cronyism in a free economy, but you have a better imagination than I.


  

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kaz
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #34 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:22am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:15am:
I've never heard a libertarian argue that economic freedom will bring good results to everyone all the time.  In fact, that is the primary argument against economic freedom or any freedom: that it won't bring good results to everyone all the time.  Like your example of ditch digger's children not being able to afford to go to school.

It's hard to imagine how evildoers could benefit from cronyism in a free economy, but you have a better imagination than I.




You're right, libertarian won't bring good results to everyone all the time.  Jeff is tripping.  Then again, since he thinks government can conquer and force people to be ruled by a government they don't consent to, he says a lot of things that aren't libertarian
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #35 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:35am
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kaz wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:22am:
You're right, libertarian won't bring good results to everyone all the time.  Jeff is tripping.
Here's what I just said- "Right. Just don't expect that economic freedom will bring good results to everyone all the time..."

Try to read more carefully.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #36 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:36am
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kaz wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:22am:
Then again, since he thinks government can conquer and force people to be ruled by a government they don't consent to, he says a lot of things that aren't libertarian
It certainly can happen, and it has happened often throughout history and it isn't libertarian.

What's your point?

BTW, you could say that people in the thirteen British colonies in America (let's call them the American Independent States so you know it was government doing the conquering) conquered British territory for themselves and created a government that not everybody consented to... Tories mostly fled to other Colonies or went back to England, and some who stayed didn't like the government that was created... But it wasn't a government created to rule people.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #37 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 8:17am
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This sounds moral:

https://reason.com/blog/2019/03/14/nyc-bill-would-outlaw-unfair-firings-in?utm_m...

But the practical result will be fewer jobs available for entry level workers.

This sounds moral too, a "public safety" issue:

https://reason.com/blog/2019/03/14/licensing-reform-opponents-say-unlicense?utm_...

But the practical result is not more safety, but less entry level jobs.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #38 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:56am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 8:17am:


No, that's immoral. Companies have a right - an absolute right - to fire whoever they want for whatever reason (or lack thereof) they want. The proposed law would violate that right.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Morality Vs. Practicality
Reply #39 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 1:20pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:56am:
No, that's immoral. Companies have a right - an absolute right - to fire whoever they want for whatever reason (or lack thereof) they want. The proposed law would violate that right.
You don't agree that banning unfair firings sounds like the moral thing to do? Does that mean you think being unfair is moral?
  
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