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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)? (Read 1709 times)
SkyChief
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #20 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 12:49pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 12:44pm:
It's driven by the comparative effects of monetary policy.  Inflation and interest rates most directly drive the dollar, but of course many other factors go into those.

I say comparative because it's comparative to what everyone else is doing with their monetary policy.  All the western governments harm their own currencies.  If you harm yours less than the others, you win!

Fair enough.

Now what determines the purchasing power of silver (or gold)?
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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kaz
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #21 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 1:01pm
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SkyChief wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 12:49pm:
Fair enough.

Now what determines the purchasing power of silver (or gold)?


I'm going to assume your question is driven by commodity backed money.  You do realize I'm on your side there, I've said so repeatedly.  So I'm going to change your question to what is the difference in the buying value of a debt backed dollar and a silver backed dollar.   If I am understanding that wrong, let me know and I'll try again.

The difference is that the commodity backed dollar prevents the government from stealing by printing money.  If the government does not print money, it doesn't actually matter which way you do it.  It will have the same affect.

If you have a commodity based currency and the government prints money, people will cash in their money for the commodity and the government will be broke as it has nothing to back its currency.

How the government hides their theft from the general public is that what they steal is really our overall productivity.  Imagine a factory that streamlines and invests in reducing it's cost.  They find they can produce the same products with 20% lower cost.  If that factory is the economy, the Fed will print 10% more money and steal half the 20% gain.  The factory doesn't notice because they are still more profitable.

So let's say for the cost of shoes:

1) As it is (debt currency, fed steals), the cost of shoes goes up, but our incomes go up more

2) If the Fed stopped printing money, the price of shoes would drop as companies produce shoes at cheaper costs

Note you see this most directly in crypto currencies, which continually raise against the dollar.  They are taking the Fed stealing out of the productivity gains.  They show how incredibly efficient our businesses are.  And how much government is stealing from them
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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SkyChief
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #22 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 1:50pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 1:01pm:
The difference is that the commodity backed dollar prevents the government from stealing by printing money. 
There ya go!  That's all i was trying to get out of you.

The purchasing power of silver remains constant over millennia because it cannot be printed.

And THAT's why the Live Oak silver certificates have an arbitrary $25/oz face value.  It could be $45/oz or  $37.23/oz.  It doesn't matter what dollar amount it's pegged to.  The dollar is fluid - the supply of dollars is determined by a handful of bankers on the Federal Reserve board.

The value of Silver (and gold) is determined by it's scarcity.  It's supply cannot be manipulated.  The ONLY way to increase the supply of silver (or gold) is to mine it.  That means men have to put on a hard-hat and dig the stuff out of the Earth.  It takes a ton of ore to yield just 24 grams of silver, so it would take over 2 tons of of ore to yield a single ounce of silver.

kaz wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 1:01pm:
Note you see this most directly in crypto currencies, which continually raise against the dollar.  They are taking the Fed stealing out of the productivity gains.  They show how incredibly efficient our businesses are.  And how much government is stealing from them
Crypto currencies are interesting, but they reset to zero when the EMP wipes out the entire block-chain.  Gold and silver aren't fazed by anything.  Sure, they will melt when exposed to extremely high temperatures, but that doesn't affect their value (much).
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #23 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 1:53pm
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SkyChief wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 11:56am:
Some localities are abandoning the Dollar for more sound (silver-backed) currencies.

Silver Certificates are back in fashion in Live Oak, Florida.

The Liberty Dollar is backed by pure .999 fine silver valued at $25/ounce.
U.S. silver certificates were exchangeable on a one-to-one basis with silver dollars, which were defined by weight and purity. (.715 troy ounces of fine silver/90% silver dollar.)

A Liberty Dollar sounds like it might be exchangeable for 1/25th of an ounce of fine silver, which means right now it's worth roughly 61 cents. Liberty Dollars come pre-debased?
  

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SkyChief
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #24 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 2:03pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 1:53pm:
Liberty Dollars come pre-debased?

No.   Liberty dollars don't give a crap about the market value of the US Dollar.   As kaz pointed out, the value of the dollar is affected by many factors; the main one being the ever-increasing supply of them.

The US dollar is constantly being debased.   It is guaranteed that the 20-Dollar bill in your pocket will buy less tomorrow than it did today.  Inflation.   

But in 30 years, that American Silver Eagle in your other pocket will buy the same as it would today!   Smiley

Liberty Dollars are immune to inflation (and debasement).
  

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Jeff
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #25 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 2:27pm
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SkyChief wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 2:03pm:
No.   Liberty dollars don't give a crap about the market value of the US Dollar.   As kaz pointed out, the value of the dollar is affected by many factors; the main one being the ever-increasing supply of them.

The US dollar is constantly being debased.   It is guaranteed that the 20-Dollar bill in your pocket will buy less tomorrow than it did today.  Inflation.   

But in 30 years, that American Silver Eagle in your other pocket will buy the same as it would today!   Smiley

Liberty Dollars are immune to inflation (and debasement).
So if I had a Liberty Dollar right now, how much silver would I get for it? One ounce of .999 silver? And I would have to pay 25 FRNs to get one? It would make more sense to just buy an ounce of silver for 15 FRNs.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #26 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 2:59pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 2:27pm:
So if I had a Liberty Dollar right now, how much silver would I get for it? One ounce of .999 silver? And I would have to pay 25 FRNs to get one? It would make more sense to just buy an ounce of silver for 15 FRNs.

I'm sorry - forgot to include this link in an earlier post:

https://www.prlog.org/12759472-infamous-liberty-dollar-is-back.html

A $1 Liberty Dollar Note is redeemable for 1/25th of an ounce of silver.

A $25 Liberty Dollar Note is redeemable for an ounce of .999 silver.

A $100 Liberty Dollar Note is redeemable for four (4) ounces of silver.

Just don't try to equate a US dollar value on these Notes.   You can't, because the value (purchasing power) of the US dollar always decreases as the supply of them increases.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #27 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 3:12pm
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SkyChief wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
I'm sorry - forgot to include this link in an earlier post:

https://www.prlog.org/12759472-infamous-liberty-dollar-is-back.html

A $1 Liberty Dollar Note is redeemable for 1/25th of an ounce of silver.

A $25 Liberty Dollar Note is redeemable for an ounce of silver.

A $100 Liberty Dollar Note is redeemable for four (4) ounces of silver.

Just don't try to equate a US dollar value on these Notes.   You can't, because the value (purchasing power) of the US dollar always decreases as the supply increases.
Thanks. U.S. 90% coins are a much better deal.
  

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kaz
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #28 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 3:12pm
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SkyChief wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 1:50pm:
There ya go!  That's all i was trying to get out of you


Um ... congratulations ... I've said that repeatedly.  Are you reading any of the discussions?

SkyChief wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 1:50pm:
Crypto currencies are interesting, but they reset to zero when the EMP wipes out the entire block-chain


Most crypto currencies have the block chains kept in more than one location ...
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: No dollar bills in favor of electronic payments or hard (like gold)?
Reply #29 - Mar 17th, 2019 at 3:14pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 17th, 2019 at 3:12pm:
Um ... congratulations ... I've said that repeatedly.  Are you reading any of the discussions?


Most crypto currencies have the block chains kept in more than one location ...
I heard the block chains can be hacked.
  

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