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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . . (Read 539 times)
Jeff
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #30 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 7:40pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 6:46pm:
So you support slavery as a means to an end, you blame native Americans for their own genocide, you blame the parents of immigrant children who are molested in federal custody and you blame New Dealers for the power of the federal government as expressed by Washington during the Whiskey Rebellion, and Lincoln during the invasion of the Confederacy. 

The native tribes wiped out more than one other tribe in their long history of barbaric tribal warfare, so yes, I blame them for those genocides.

Parent's who take their children in harms way are at least partially responsible for what happens to the children.

I take back every snarky comment I've made about you being inconsistent.

No, I don't support slavery, not even the forms of slavery practiced by the native tribes.

I blame FDR and his "progressive" cronies for the New Deal and for perverting the Constitution, not George Washington.

I blame the slavers for starting the War to End Slavery in America.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #31 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:37am
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Jeff wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 7:40pm:
No, I don't support slavery, not even the forms of slavery practiced by the native tribes.


You have repeatedly said that slaveholders such as Madison, Washington and Jefferson were heroes of freedom and that if they had released their slaves, their slaves would have failed under freedom.

The exact arguments one might hear at a slave auction in the 18th century.

Quote:
I blame FDR and his "progressive" cronies for the New Deal and for perverting the Constitution, not George Washington.


Say what you will about FDR, he never supported slavery other than conscription.

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I blame the slavers for starting the War to End Slavery in America.


Which is absurd.  Why would slavers start a war to end slavery?


  

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Jeff
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #32 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:51am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:37am:
You have repeatedly said that slaveholders such as Madison, Washington and Jefferson were heroes of freedom and that if they had released their slaves, their slaves would have failed under freedom.
It was a reasonable argument in 18th Century America.

That raises a question, who treated their women worse, the European settlers or the native tribes?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #33 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:53am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:37am:
Say what you will about FDR
I did, he was a socialist and an elitist and did huge damage to the cause of liberty in America.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #34 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:54am
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:37am:
Why would slavers start a war to end slavery?
They thought they would win and be able to preserve and extend slavery across America.

It was an absurd idea and evil too.
  
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kaz
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #35 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 5:09pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 10:37am:
You have repeatedly said that slaveholders such as Madison, Washington and Jefferson were heroes of freedom and that if they had released their slaves, their slaves would have failed under freedom.


Factually, Washington did ultimately free his slaves
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #36 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 5:43pm
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kaz wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 5:09pm:
Factually, Washington did ultimately free his slaves
Which doesn't have anything to do with the thread either.

If you and the Sack want to talk about slavery, do it in a thread about slavery...

Anyway, who do you think treated their women worse, the European settlers or the native tribes?


  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #37 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:13am
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kaz wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 5:09pm:
Factually, Washington did ultimately free his slaves


Good Lord.

Washington's will included manumission for the enslaved people he held upon the death of his widow Martha Washington. She freed her husband's slaves in January 1801, just over a year after his death. However, while she lived, Martha did not emancipate any of the slaves she herself owned.

George Washington and slavery - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_slavery

Yeah.

Real fiery abolitionists he was.


  

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Jeff
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #38 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 1:33pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:13am:
Good Lord.

Washington's will included manumission for the enslaved people he held upon the death of his widow Martha Washington. She freed her husband's slaves in January 1801, just over a year after his death. However, while she lived, Martha did not emancipate any of the slaves she herself owned.

George Washington and slavery - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_slavery

Yeah.

Real fiery abolitionists he was.


So? He had the same understanding of what was likely to happen to freed slaves in 18th Century Virginia as did most other people who knew slavery was an evil institution. Freed slaves didn't fare very well in most of America even after they were all freed in 1865. Judging 18th Century people by 21st Century standards isn't fair or realistic. Neither is pretending that things then were different than they were.


  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Should All Tribal Lands, Ceded to Native Americans by Treaty, but . .
Reply #39 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:38pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 1:33pm:
So? He had the same understanding of what was likely to happen to freed slaves in 18th Century Virginia as did most other people who knew slavery was an evil institution. Freed slaves didn't fare very well in most of America even after they were all freed in 1865.


So keeping them enslaved was for their own good.

Then, why would Washington harm his slaves by releasing them in his will after his wife died?  Seem like a pretty mean trick if you are right about them not being quite human enough for freedom (only three-fifths and all).  Was he angry because Jefferson bragged about what a hottie the slave he was raping was and Mrs. W. didn't allow no such goin's  on?


Quote:
So  Judging 18th Century people by 21st Century standards isn't fair or realistic. Neither is pretending that things then were different than they were.




Yet you judge both 18th century people by that standard when you complain about how the good abolitionists that wrote the constitution had to compromise with the slavers, and about how the slavers are entirely to blame for fighting back against Lincoln's "invasion to stop slavery."

Consistency, Jeff.  It's a beautiful thing.  Try it once and you'll never go back.


  

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