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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Church of the Invisible Hand (Read 595 times)
Jeff
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #40 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 8:55am
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kaz wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 8:51am:
Factually, it's both.

It's a crime against the State
It's a tort against you
You mean the state has made it a crime by enacting a statute that says "rape is a crime".

I assumed that the Church of the Invisible Hand had dispensed with the state, so, if I could afford to hire one of the Arbitrators, the question would be "Did the alleged perp sin against me, or not?"
  
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kaz
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #41 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 9:26am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 8:55am:
You mean the state has made it a crime by enacting a statute that says "rape is a crime".

I assumed that the Church of the Invisible Hand had dispensed with the state, so, if I could afford to hire one of the Arbitrators, the question would be "Did the alleged perp sin against me, or not?"


I don't know what you're talking about, but crimes are committed against the State, torts are committed against people.  An act, like rape, can be both.  A rape victim is only a witness to that the rapist committed the crime of rape against the State.  It explains why crime victims have no rights and are treated like dirt by defense attorneys.  It's also why the State can charge someone when the victim "does not want to press charges."  The victim not pressing charges actually makes no sense in our legal system.  The victim is the State.

I'm just telling you how our legal system works.  I'm not interested in your ODD arguments
  

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johnfkosanke
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #42 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 9:39am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 8:38am:
That's all swell if you can afford to buy the justice and/or if the tortfeasor has assets.

Subrogators offer to PAY victims for the right to subrogate their claim. This may include job training and placement for the tortfeasors, or supervised work, depending on the situation.

https://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Restitution_Transfer_and_Recoupment
  
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Jeff
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #43 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 12:34pm
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kaz wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 9:26am:
I don't know what you're talking about, but crimes are committed against the State, torts are committed against people.  An act, like rape, can be both.
Rape is a crime and a tort, it's a wrong act against a person. You can't rape a state, but a state can make rape a crime.
  
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kaz
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #44 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 5:54pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 8:38am:
What if I'm poor and I get assaulted and raped by a poor person?

I know, that's a crime rather than a tort


kaz wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 8:51am:
Factually, it's both.

It's a crime against the State
It's a tort against you


Jeff wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 12:34pm:
Rape is a crime and a tort


Thanks for explaining to me what I just explained to you, drunken sot.

Remember when you told me I can't admit when I'm wrong?  That was a classic ... coming from you ...
  

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Jeff
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #45 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 7:14pm
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kaz wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 5:54pm:
Thanks for explaining to me what I just explained to you, drunken sot.
I just wanted to let you know I disagree about the "crime against the state" thing. I think that goes back to a time when the King was the State, so anytime you broke the King's law, it was a crime against the State.
  
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johnfkosanke
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #46 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 9:52pm
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Is all this hostility for real? If so, what's the point?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #47 - Apr 10th, 2019 at 10:16pm
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johnfkosanke wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 9:52pm:
Is all this hostility for real? If so, what's the point?


The best libertarians are the most hostile.

It's a very dogmatic belief structure, and to protect that, you have to double down on calling people stupid who question the dogma.

If I insulted people as well, I'd probably have rights.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #48 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 6:53am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 8:38am:
I know, that's a crime rather than a tort


Jeff wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 7:14pm:
I just wanted to let you know I disagree about the "crime against the state" thing. I think that goes back to a time when the King was the State, so anytime you broke the King's law, it was a crime against the State.


That's what you meant by it's "a crime rather than a tort," that you disagree with how our legal system considers crimes to be against the State.  You said it's not a tort.

You're so full of shit.  You can't admit you didn't know that a crime is also a tort.  We know that because you said a crime is not a tort.   But your lies trying to bull shit your way out of it are hilarious.  Keep them coming.

You were wrong, Jeff, you didn't know that rape is both a crime and a tort, you even said that you didn't know that.  I quoted you
  

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johnfkosanke
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Re: Church of the Invisible Hand
Reply #49 - Apr 11th, 2019 at 6:55am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 10th, 2019 at 10:16pm:
The best libertarians are the most hostile.

It's a very dogmatic belief structure, and to protect that, you have to double down on calling people stupid who question the dogma.



At this point, I'm mostly interested in specific objections to the statement of faith, the structure, and the pact - all listed above. So far I haven't seen any clear objections - only infighting. If this can be settled pragmatically as well, that would be magnificent. I don't expect everyone to agree on everything. Just the basics.

Nevertheless, the Church will not be wishy-washy on its stance against institutionalized collectivism. In the future, I don't want it to be able to retreat from a firm opposition to a compulsory state.
  
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