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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly (Read 1351 times)
Jeff
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #10 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 10:30pm
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kaz wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 2:42pm:
So you don't think congress is going to go to seniors and say they are eliminating 2/3 of what government spends on their medicare and spread the remaining third across all Americans?

Huh, I don't either ...
The alternative is Congress going to current workers and saying they are raising their taxes by how much?

Huh, I can't see that happening...
  

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kaz
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #11 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 10:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 10:30pm:
The alternative is Congress going to current workers and saying they are raising their taxes by how much?

Huh, I can't see that happening...

Gotcha.  Government has been afraid to tell workers they are raising taxes. I'd say you got me there, but wow, you didn't.  Sleep it off, Jeff, sleep it off
  

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Jeff
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #12 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 11:01pm
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kaz wrote on Apr 20th, 2019 at 10:50pm:
Gotcha.  Government has been afraid to tell workers they are raising taxes.
Nobody notices? I always did... These workers today must be oblivious.

As long as the government can borrow a trillion a year, they don't have to raise taxes just yet.

And if they cut medical services, they can provide Medicare for All at a savings.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #13 - Apr 21st, 2019 at 4:55pm
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Another loser in the "Medicare For All" plan is Hospitals.

For a knee replacement, Medicare will pay a hospital $17,000.

The same hospital can get more than twice as much, or about $37,000, for the same surgery on a patient with private insurance.

Some hospitals, especially struggling rural centers, would close virtually overnight.

Others would offset the steep cuts by laying off (or cutting hours for) hundreds of thousands of workers and abandoning lower-paying services like mental health.    Very bad for the economy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/21/health/medicare-for-all-hospitals.html?smid=n...
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #14 - Apr 21st, 2019 at 6:52pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 21st, 2019 at 4:55pm:
Another loser in the "Medicare For All" plan is Hospitals.

For a knee replacement, Medicare will pay a hospital $17,000.

The same hospital can get more than twice as much, or about $37,000, for the same surgery on a patient with private insurance.

Some hospitals, especially struggling rural centers, would close virtually overnight.

Others would offset the steep cuts by laying off (or cutting hours for) hundreds of thousands of workers and abandoning lower-paying services like mental health.    Very bad for the economy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/21/health/medicare-for-all-hospitals.html?smid=n...
The ACA has been driving rural independent hospitals out of business for years now, a result predicted by free market economists.

Before we have a discussion about Medicare for All, we need to see a detailed proposal.

So far it's just a fantasy talking point.


  

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The Opposition
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #15 - Apr 21st, 2019 at 8:21pm
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I do not believe in this because it's morally wrong according to the NAP, but there is a very, very simple way to do this that would save everyone a lot of money.

1. Close down the insurance companies. Yes, by force. They're the ones driving up prices, along with rampant malpractice suits for mistakes that can't be avoided.

2. Medical services become cash-only by government mandate.

3. Take the medical students who just barely flunked out of medical school and hire them at minimum wage to run free hospitals for the poor, old, freeloaders, or whatever. You want the free care? You can't sue. You get what you get.

Remember, only something like the top 5-10% of prospective medical students become doctors. Add another percent or two. License them conditionally. Let them serve the poor as government doctors for minimum wage. (We already import doctors from other countries whose standards are lower... because we don't have enough doctors.)

Cash-only Hospital:

  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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SkyChief
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #16 - Apr 21st, 2019 at 9:42pm
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 21st, 2019 at 8:21pm:
1. Close down the insurance companies. Yes, by force.

2. Medical services become cash-only by government mandate.

3. Take the medical students who just barely flunked out of medical school and hire them at minimum wage to run free hospitals for the poor, old, freeloaders, or whatever. You want the free care? You can't sue. You get what you get..


Government needs to stay out of the health care and medical business.  When government start exerting pressure and regulations on private businesses, doctors, insurance companies, etc,  the cost of goods and services invariably go up.

Government needs to focus on their primary and secondary functions, i.e.;   protect and respect the rights of the US citizens and maintain a military capable of defending the homeland against attack.   

Of course, there are tertiary functions, but Health care is not among them.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Jeff
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #17 - Apr 22nd, 2019 at 7:16am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 21st, 2019 at 8:21pm:
I do not believe in this because it's morally wrong according to the NAP, but there is a very, very simple way to do this that would save everyone a lot of money.

1. Close down the insurance companies. Yes, by force. They're the ones driving up prices, along with rampant malpractice suits for mistakes that can't be avoided.

2. Medical services become cash-only by government mandate.

3. Take the medical students who just barely flunked out of medical school and hire them at minimum wage to run free hospitals for the poor, old, freeloaders, or whatever. You want the free care? You can't sue. You get what you get.

Remember, only something like the top 5-10% of prospective medical students become doctors. Add another percent or two. License them conditionally. Let them serve the poor as government doctors for minimum wage. (We already import doctors from other countries whose standards are lower... because we don't have enough doctors.)

Cash-only Hospital:

You propose an authoritarian solution as usual, with the usual disclaimer that your strong adherence to the NAP prevents you from actually advocating what you advocate. Cheesy

A better plan is to get the government out of it entirely.
  

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kaz
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #18 - Apr 22nd, 2019 at 7:18am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 21st, 2019 at 8:21pm:
I do not believe in this because it's morally wrong according to the NAP, but there is a very, very simple way to do this that would save everyone a lot of money.

1. Close down the insurance companies. Yes, by force. They're the ones driving up prices, along with rampant malpractice suits for mistakes that can't be avoided


The insurance companies are driving up malpractice suits?  You're as clueless as the day is long.  Once again you don't know what the hell you're talking about.  It's our tort system that's doing that.  Why would insurance companies want to pay out insurance claims?  That's moronic
  

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kaz
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Re: Bernie Sanders' "Medicare For All" Plan May Be Too Costly
Reply #19 - Apr 22nd, 2019 at 7:19am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 21st, 2019 at 9:42pm:
Government needs to stay out of the health care and medical business.  When government start exerting pressure and regulations on private businesses, doctors, insurance companies, etc,  the cost of goods and services invariably go up.

Government needs to focus on their primary and secondary functions, i.e.;   protect and respect the rights of the US citizens and maintain a military capable of defending the homeland against attack.   

Of course, there are tertiary functions, but Health care is not among them.


Yep.  If government just got out of it, cheaper healthcare options would spring up on their own.  When government says it's here to help, it's never true
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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