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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer? (Read 1520 times)
SkyChief
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #90 - May 15th, 2019 at 10:58am
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kaz wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 7:49am:
That most libertarians are anarchists is absurd, there's no need to prove that.  The Libertarian Party is mostly made up of non-anarchists as well. 
Thankfully, MOST libertarians are MINarchists.

kaz wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 7:49am:
Look at the Libertarian candidates.  Didn't only one minor candidate claim to be an anarchist in 2016?  I know you know the candidates better than I do.  Anarchists are a tiny fraction of the tiny fraction of Americans who are libertarian.
Adam Kokesh has thrown his hat in the ring for 2020 LP Prez candidate.

Kokesh is scarily anarchist:

"When elected, I will swear in, walk to the White House, and sign one executive order. This executive order will lay out the process for dissolving the federal government in a peaceful, orderly manner."   Shocked    Shocked 

That's even too anarchist for ME!   Dissolve the federal government?  Seriously?     I won't vote for any extremist wacko.   If he could just tone down the rhetoric...

kaz wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 7:49am:
The Libertarian Party has it's head shoved up it's ass on immigration, the national ID, taxes and a variety of other issues, which is why I won't join the party even though I often vote for them.
There's a libertarian inside you, kaz.  don't fight it.  Nobody is 100% libertarian. 

kaz wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 7:49am:
Few hate government as much as I do after a career in management, management consulting and entrepreneurship.
I owned a business that was forced to close as a result of zoning/regulation snafus.  We lost hundreds of thousands of $$.  I'm not real fond of government either.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #91 - May 15th, 2019 at 6:21pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 10:58am:
Adam Kokesh has thrown his hat in the ring for 2020 LP Prez candidate.

Kokesh is scarily anarchist:

"When elected, I will swear in, walk to the White House, and sign one executive order. This executive order will lay out the process for dissolving the federal government in a peaceful, orderly manner."   Shocked    Shocked 

That's even too anarchist for ME! 
It's also too authoritarian. What sort of person would fantasize about having the individual power to dissolve a national government?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #92 - May 15th, 2019 at 6:23pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 10:58am:
I owned a business that was forced to close as a result of zoning/regulation snafus.  We lost hundreds of thousands of $$.  I'm not real fond of government either.
I'm not at all fond of many (most) things that governments do, but there are some things I appreciate.

What went down with the local government zoning people?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #93 - May 15th, 2019 at 6:59pm
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Jeff wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 6:23pm:
I'm not at all fond of many (most) things that governments do, but there are some things I appreciate.

What went down with the local government zoning people?

It's complicated. . . . Long story short we got in a 2 year long battle with the City regarding a zoning variance snafu.   After a hundred trips to City Planning Office, we ultimately lost and they chained the doors. 

But the 2 years we were in operation were very profitable.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #94 - May 15th, 2019 at 7:03pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 6:59pm:
It's complicated. . . . Long story short we got in a 2 year long battle with the City regarding a zoning variance snafu.   After a hundred trips to City Planning Office, we ultimately lost and they chained the doors. 

But the 2 years in limbo were very profitable.
They allowed you to build a building (or rent one) and start a business by granting you a variance  and then changed their minds?

What sort of business was it? Were you in city/town limits, or in the county? I had some experience with these things back in the '70s...
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #95 - May 15th, 2019 at 7:28pm
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Jeff wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 7:03pm:
They allowed you to build a building (or rent one) and start a business by granting you a variance  and then changed their minds?

What sort of business was it? Were you in city/town limits, or in the county? I had some experience with these things back in the '70s...

It was a fitness center.  It was in an area zoned for "light industrial" use so we needed to obtain a variance to operate.  The (leased) building couldn't meet building codes for human occupancy, as it was a converted warehouse.

In spite of that, we ran the business successfully for 2 years while we battled the City.  Our 300+ members were very upset to learn that Government bureaucrats had forced us to close.
  
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #96 - May 15th, 2019 at 7:56pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 7:28pm:
It was a fitness center.  It was in an area zoned for "light industrial" use so we needed to obtain a variance to operate.  The (leased) building couldn't meet building codes for human occupancy, as it was a converted warehouse.

In spite of that, we ran the business successfully for 2 years while we battled the City.  Our 300+ members were very upset to learn that Government bureaucrats had forced us to close.
Areas zoned for light industrial use allow other uses up to and including light industry.

Your problem was the building was unsafe for the intended use, or you didn't have proper sanitary facilities or what?

Most places require that you get the permits before you open for business and will shut you down immediately if you don't have them.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #97 - May 15th, 2019 at 8:18pm
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Jeff wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 7:56pm:
Your problem was the building was unsafe for the intended use, or you didn't have proper sanitary facilities or what?
The building was perfectly safe.  There were modern bathrooms and an air-conditioned front office. The issues had to do with special earthquake retrofit requirements mandated decades after the building was erected.  The owner simply wasn't interested in spending $1.2 million to bring the building up to code.

We're kinda in the weeds, here.    We should be discussing the wonderful benefits of UBI and Welfare.

I can't seem to think of any at the moment.  Embarrassed
  
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Jeff
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Re: Welfare or Universal Basic Income: Which do Libertarians Prefer?
Reply #98 - May 15th, 2019 at 8:42pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 8:18pm:
We're kinda in the weeds, here.
I'll say! Way out in the weeds...

It's hard to believe they let you move in and operate for two years...
  
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