Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Great View of History
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Great View of History (Read 631 times)
BobK71
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 894
Joined: Jun 12th, 2015
The Great View of History
Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:52am
Print Post  
Did Western capitalism defeat both Communism and Fascism?  Yes.

Is the Western ruling class objectively superior to Communist and Fascist rule?  Yes.

Would the fight against Communism and Fascism have even been necessary if the West had lived up to its professed ideals?  No, because Communist forces rose in Russia by the Western-inspired bloodshed of World War I, and Fascist forces rose in Germany and Japan by the West's self-inflicted Great Depression.  But the sharp contradictions within socialism and Fascism sealed their fates as short-lived systems.

And we turn now to money and economics...

Will sound money replace fiat money?  I predict yes, though the next version of sound money won't be a declared gold or silver standard, but 'managed exchange rates' between state-issued money and a host of 'hard' monies, including cryptocurrency, which will amount to the same thing on the ground.

Is sound money objectively superior to fiat money?  Yes.

Will the fight against fiat money have even been necessary if the Western elites maintained a truly free market system?  No, fiat money arose because the Western elites had slowly painted themselves into a corner by financial inflation to benefit politicians and bankers.  Fiat money, or, more realistically, money backed by artificially cheap oil and artificially cheap goods from developing countries, was the short-term solution to keep the world system stable, and can only be a short-term solution.

The duality is interesting!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kaz
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Minarchist

Posts: 7988
Location: Kazmania
Joined: Jun 6th, 2017
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #1 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 10:18am
Print Post  
BobK71 wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:52am:
Did Western capitalism defeat both Communism and Fascism?  Yes.

Is the Western ruling class objectively superior to Communist and Fascist rule?  Yes.

Would the fight against Communism and Fascism have even been necessary if the West had lived up to its professed ideals?  No, because Communist forces rose in Russia by the Western-inspired bloodshed of World War I, and Fascist forces rose in Germany and Japan by the West's self-inflicted Great Depression.  But the sharp contradictions within socialism and Fascism sealed their fates as short-lived systems.

And we turn now to money and economics...

Will sound money replace fiat money?  I predict yes, though the next version of sound money won't be a declared gold or silver standard, but 'managed exchange rates' between state-issued money and a host of 'hard' monies, including cryptocurrency, which will amount to the same thing on the ground.

Is sound money objectively superior to fiat money?  Yes.

Will the fight against fiat money have even been necessary if the Western elites maintained a truly free market system?  No, fiat money arose because the Western elites had slowly painted themselves into a corner by financial inflation to benefit politicians and bankers.  Fiat money, or, more realistically, money backed by artificially cheap oil and artificially cheap goods from developing countries, was the short-term solution to keep the world system stable, and can only be a short-term solution.

The duality is interesting!


Three questions, Bob:

1)  Who do you mean by the "ruling class" in the west?

2)  What evidence do you have we're moving away from fiat money?  I see no evidence that is happening

3)  Just curious.  Have you ever been abducted by aliens?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10821
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #2 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 11:06am
Print Post  
BobK71 wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 9:52am:
Did Western capitalism defeat both Communism and Fascism?  Yes.

Bob, Communism is alive and doing great.    China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, and Laos are all communist countries.  The Communist Party is strong in Russia.   Some say that Russia might revert back to Communism



https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/07/30/russian-commies-try-staging-a-...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tommy Palven
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2028
Location: North America
Joined: Sep 27th, 2011
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #3 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 12:17pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 11:06am:
Bob, Communism is alive and doing great.    China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, and Laos are all communist countries.  The Communist Party is strong in Russia.   Some say that Russia might revert back to Communism

https://www.szeszak.hu/Comment/Kommentarok/Ukran%20szorny/tuntetes-4.jpg

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/07/30/russian-commies-try-staging-a-...


I think that you can make a case that free enterprise is less constrained in China and Vietnam than it is here, where it is almost getting to the point that whatever is not subsidized is outlawed.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10821
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #4 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 12:40pm
Print Post  
Tommy Palven wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
I think that you can make a case that free enterprise is less constrained in China and Vietnam than it is here, where it is almost getting to the point that whatever is not subsidized is outlawed.
It's ironic, for sure.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 44851
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #5 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 3:28pm
Print Post  
Tommy Palven wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
I think that you can make a case that free enterprise is less constrained in China and Vietnam than it is here, where it is almost getting to the point that whatever is not subsidized is outlawed.
You can make a case that wide open crony capitalism was the very evil Marx was talking about.

Is that what you're talking about?

  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 44851
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #6 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 3:29pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 12:40pm:
It's ironic, for sure.   
That's right. It's true we are still more free than is China. Smiley
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tommy Palven
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2028
Location: North America
Joined: Sep 27th, 2011
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #7 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 3:55pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 3:28pm:
You can make a case that wide open crony capitalism was the very evil Marx was talking about.

Is that what you're talking about?



Yes, that's part of it.  Crony capitalism for the big guys, and tons of licensing requirements and bureaucratic pitfalls for the little guys at entry level.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 44851
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #8 - Apr 19th, 2019 at 4:01pm
Print Post  
Tommy Palven wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 3:55pm:
Yes, that's part of it.  Crony capitalism for the big guys, and tons of licensing requirements and bureaucratic pitfalls for the little guys at entry level.
I agree.

That leads you to call what's going on in China "less constrained free enterprise?"

But of course, you meant that communism is totally constrained free enterprise.
  

"Free hate speech"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 10380
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: The Great View of History
Reply #9 - Apr 20th, 2019 at 1:52am
Print Post  
Tommy Palven wrote on Apr 19th, 2019 at 12:17pm:
I think that you can make a case that free enterprise is less constrained in China and Vietnam than it is here, where it is almost getting to the point that whatever is not subsidized is outlawed.


I'm going to fix that for you.

I think that you can make a case that free enterprise is less constrained in effect in China and Vietnam than it is here, where it is almost getting to the point that whatever is not subsidized is effectively outlawed.

The government in China has every power to tear down any business they choose.

They just choose not to.

They have absolute power, and they're using it to show that communism beats capitalism at capitalism.

Now, if the Chinese media turned against the Chinese People, and started attacking teenagers for smiling awkwardly as someone beats a drum in their face, the Chinese government would absolutely shut that down.

And maybe they should.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Great View of History
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy