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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed? (Read 2258 times)
SkyChief
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #10 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 3:04pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 2:25pm:
We do pay an accounting service to take care of our money.  That seems the best model of government:  elected leaders providing oversight on professional managers.

Ours has a similar arrangement as yours, but there's a lot of cronyism going on - the Prez's son-in-law has a landscaping company, so naturally the son-in-law does "landscaping" in the HOA common areas.   

It's basically just a "Mow, Blow & Go", really.  The son-in-law charges a lot of money for a small amount of work. And the guys blow dust all over the cars parked outside.

They're terrible.  If the "landscaper" weren't related to the Prez, we'd fire his ass in a heartbeat, and get some bids.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #11 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 5:38pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 11:44am:
...knowing and consenting to all decisions not being unanimous.
But you demand that all decisions of fairly elected representatives  be unanimous, and that all elected representatives be elected unanimously and that all basic government charters be approved unanimously...

What a gross hypocrite you are.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #12 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 5:42pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 5:38pm:
But you demand that all decisions of fairly elected representatives  be unanimous, and that all elected representatives be elected unanimously and that all basic government charters be approved unanimously...

What a gross hypocrite you are.


I never demanded any of that. 

Are you feeling OK, Jeff?
  

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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #13 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 5:49pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 5:42pm:
I never demanded any of that. 

Are you feeling OK, Jeff?
Never better, thanks.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #14 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 9:08pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:07pm:
No. People are lured into signing contracts they don't really understand and are then at the mercy of the HOA board of Directors who can change the rules and fees whenever they want to. It's obviously an illegitimate form of tyranny that tramples on people's rights.


You never said this before.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #15 - May 1st, 2019 at 7:02am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 9:08pm:
You never said this before.
I was making fun of the Sack, who insists that consent of the governed is impossible when it comes to government, but thinks it occurs all the time in the governance of HOAs.

He's OK with elected representatives making rules for a HOA, even if the representatives weren't unanimously elected and even if not al the members of the HOA agree to the rules, but calls the same thing "tyranny" when government does it.

It's very hypocritical of him.
  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #16 - May 1st, 2019 at 10:22am
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Jeff wrote on May 1st, 2019 at 7:02am:
I was making fun of the Sack, who insists that consent of the governed is impossible when it comes to government, but thinks it occurs all the time in the governance of HOAs.

He's OK with elected representatives making rules for a HOA, even if the representatives weren't unanimously elected and even if not al the members of the HOA agree to the rules, but calls the same thing "tyranny" when government does it.

It's very hypocritical of him.


I didn't call it tyranny.  I pointed out the obvious:  that we cannot claim existing people consent to existing government, since there is no workable way for anyone to express lack of consent and since people who have tried to express lack of consent in the past have been met with overwhelming and ruthless force to bring them back under control.


  

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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #17 - May 1st, 2019 at 1:13pm
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Little Big Man wrote on May 1st, 2019 at 10:22am:
I didn't call it tyranny.  I pointed out the obvious:  that we cannot claim existing people consent to existing government, since there is no workable way for anyone to express lack of consent and since people who have tried to express lack of consent in the past have been met with overwhelming and ruthless force to bring them back under control.


That you don't agree with the concept of consent of the governed as it existed (and still exists) at the time of the creation of the U.S. is not that important.

That you approve of the way a HOA operates but not of the way the U.S. government operates is hypocritical.
  
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AlayneLeung
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #18 - May 1st, 2019 at 2:29pm
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I started a HOA topic.  A HOA, that's perimeter exists within the USA, theoretically shouldn't be able to require persons, that own home(s) within perimeter of that HOA, to abide by that HOA's rules because United States Constitution Amendment XIII prohibits involuntary servitude.  Should this issue be taken to all current and perhaps future United States Supreme Court Justices? What if persons, that's home(s) and those location(s) of those said home(s) that those said persons reside in within perimeter of HOA(s), want to discontinue membership from that (or those) HOA(s) to start a new HOA for those said person(s) and their home(s) that are located ?

http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1427226770/9#9

Perhaps HOA(s) do(es)n't or won't want to control every aspect of your home(s).
« Last Edit: May 1st, 2019 at 7:35pm by AlayneLeung »  
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Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #19 - May 1st, 2019 at 4:09pm
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Jeff wrote on May 1st, 2019 at 1:13pm:
That you don't agree with the concept of consent of the governed as it existed (and still exists) at the time of the creation of the U.S. is not that important.

That you approve of the way a HOA operates but not of the way the U.S. government operates is hypocritical.


So you really do not understand that members of an HOA consent to live under its rules when they sign their mortgages or buy a home with deed restrictions?

If free wealth owners cannot sign a paper that consents to a government as a condition of buying a specific piece of property, how do you think we consent to other, more coersive forms of government?

You're giving ammo to those who say that you don't believe any of what you write, you just argue for the sake of it.
  

Snarky no more!
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