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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed? (Read 3139 times)
Little Big Man
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Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:54pm
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I would have to say, “yes.”

My obligation to the HOA was spelled out in the loan papers that I signed to buy my house.  There is a sign posted at the two entrances two my neighborhood stating, “Welcome to _______, a Deed-restricted Community.”

I had reasonable opportunity to choose to live in an HOA-free area.  I still am able to choose to move if the HOA becomes a liability rather than an asset to my pursuit of happiness.

Fees are minimal.  I actually went a couple of years without paying the annual payment and then caught up plus a few years in advance.  Nobody pointed a gun at me.  It’s a redneck neighborhood, so at the meetings most of the people who are not open carrying are concealed carrying.  All those non-government guns but no ones been shot in the fifteen years I’ve lived there.

I don’t know.  That seems to be the only government that I do consent to.  I guess it is good to know that it is certainly possible for a government to provide services and function well without resorting to theft.  On here, it’s easy to lose sight of that simple truism.



  

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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #1 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:07pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:54pm:
I would have to say, “yes.”
No. People are lured into signing contracts they don't really understand and are then at the mercy of the HOA board of Directors who can change the rules and fees whenever they want to. It's obviously an illegitimate form of tyranny that tramples on people's rights.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #2 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:14pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:07pm:
No. People are lured into signing contracts they don't really understand and are then at the mercy of the HOA board of Directors who can change the rules and fees whenever they want to. It's obviously an illegitimate form of tyranny that tramples on people's rights.


Ah.

Behind on your dues, are you?

How can you say that without exploding with hypocrisy?

You claim that a all 328M U.S. Citizens consent to all the taxes the federal governments and their states levy on them, because of a document some white male landowners signed a few hundred years ago, but you claim I’m tyranized by my homeowners association  whose services I voluntarily contracted for?

Absurd.

  

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SkyChief
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #3 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:25pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:54pm:
I would have to say, “yes.”

I would also say "yes." 

Before buying a property in any HOA, the buyer must read and understand the terms and rules outlined in the CC&Rs (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions).

It is a binding contract, and ipso facto is an agreement and "consent to be governed".

If the buyer doesn't agree to the terms and rules in the CC&Rs, he/she should not buy the property.  Simple as that.

That said, I've only once had the misfortune of owning property in an HOA.    Never again.   HOAs suck so hard.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #4 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 5:17pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:25pm:
I would also say "yes." 

Before buying a property in any HOA, the buyer must read and understand the terms and rules outlined in the CC&Rs (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions).

It is a binding contract, and ipso facto is an agreement and "consent to be governed".

If the buyer doesn't agree to the terms and rules in the CC&Rs, he/she should not buy the property.  Simple as that.

That said, I've only once had the misfortune of owning property in an HOA.    Never again.   HOAs suck so hard.


Right!

See, that’s what I keep trying to explain to Jeff and Kaz.  Just because a government is voluntary, doesn’t mean it can’t be as authoritarian and as greedy as they prefer government to be. 

People like them who want all children to be mis-educated in those efficient public school and who want their neighbors told to keep their lawns to suit the will of the collective will bunch up in local areas.  Just don’t let government claim that it has the right to steal on every square inch of the Earth and justify it by saying we can go live somewhere else.  That doesn’t make sense.

If those kind of involuntarily funded governments are as good at protecting people as Jeff and Kaz say they are, and if voluntary funding is as bad, no one will want to live anywhere else, except where they are forcibly robbed by their government.

  

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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #5 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 6:34pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:14pm:
Ah.

Behind on your dues, are you?


Can the HOA board change the rules without unanimous consent? Must HOA board members be elected unanimously?

I was simply pointing out the absurdity of your position.
  

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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #6 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 11:44am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 6:34pm:
Can the HOA board change the rules without unanimous consent? Must HOA board members be elected unanimously?

I was simply pointing out the absurdity of your position.


You failed to do so. 

I signed my mortgage contract knowing and consenting to paying HOA dues and knowing and consenting to all decisions not being unanimous.  If my HOA becomes a detriment to my pursuit of happiness, I have a realistic option of selling my home and moving to a neighborhood without an HOA. 

That’s consent. 

There’s nothing remotely like consent for almost all of the other forms of government we live under. 
  

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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #7 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 11:53am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 4:25pm:
I would also say "yes." 

Before buying a property in any HOA, the buyer must read and understand the terms and rules outlined in the CC&Rs (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions).

It is a binding contract, and ipso facto is an agreement and "consent to be governed".

If the buyer doesn't agree to the terms and rules in the CC&Rs, he/she should not buy the property.  Simple as that.

That said, I've only once had the misfortune of owning property in an HOA.    Never again.   HOAs suck so hard.


I do happen to have one of the better HOA’s.  Mainly because our members keep it under. Control instead of vice—versa.    If some senior citizen is having a hard time keeping her yard mowed, we don’t threaten her with foreclosure if she doesn’t hire landscapers.  We send our kids over with mowers to “volunteer” and then pass the hat to “tip” them. 

Once our president brought a sherrif’s deputy to the meeting because one of the residents was talking too much in the previous meeting.  It got ugly fast.  The owners didn’t like the loud mouth, but liked even less the idea of bringing cops in to control us.  Everyone started asking that the deputy shut up and let the owners talk.  The president took his “hired gun” outside for a little talk and then he stayed outside the door, I guess to protect us from terrorists or whatever.

That president was re-elected handily.  The owners like him because he’s a hard worker.  He just needed a reminder that he works for us. 

That’s what government should be.


  

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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #8 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 12:05pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 11:53am:
That president was re-elected handily.  The owners like him because he’s a hard worker.  He just needed a reminder that he works for us. 

That’s what government should be.

Just curious. . .   Does your HOA President get any compensation, or perks?

Our HOA prez gets 2 extra designated parking spaces.   In a beach community, parking is scarce, so that's a HUGE perk.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #9 - Apr 30th, 2019 at 2:25pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 30th, 2019 at 12:05pm:
Just curious. . .   Does your HOA President get any compensation, or perks?

Our HOA prez gets 2 extra designated parking spaces.   In a beach community, parking is scarce, so that's a HUGE perk.   


Ours gets nothing officially.  Not even a parking space at the clubhouse/meeting room/boat ramp (yes, we’re rednecks).  Unofficially, he gets a pass on a minor rule violation.  He has a stock racing car business located on the street next to our neighborhood (told you).  He often stores several of them in his driveway and large shed which could be seen as violating the rule against operating a business. 

We do pay an accounting service to take care of our money.  That seems the best model of government:  elected leaders providing oversight on professional managers.
  

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