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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed? (Read 3099 times)
Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #60 - May 7th, 2019 at 9:12am
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Jeff wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 9:06am:
Well, at the same time in history, how were POC/women doing along the lines of creating representative governments that protected rights? In fact, has such a thing ever happened since that time? Or before?


Well, the “POC” tribal people had all the government they were willing to consent to, but the WML’s wiped them out anyway.  I  suppose you blame the slaves and the women for not ignoring the guns and forming their own governments to be wiped out also?

This really sounds more like non-consent of the governed . . .
  

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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #61 - May 7th, 2019 at 3:01pm
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Little Big Man wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 9:12am:
Well, the “POC” tribal people had all the government they were willing to consent to, but the WML’s wiped them out anyway.  I  suppose you blame the slaves and the women for not ignoring the guns and forming their own governments to be wiped out also?

This really sounds more like non-consent of the governed . . .
According to you, consent of the governed is impossible...

Do you imagine that tribal people voted democratically when they established the few and limited 'governments' they created, or that they let the slaves and women vote?
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #62 - May 8th, 2019 at 8:13am
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Jeff wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 3:01pm:
According to you, consent of the governed is impossible...

Do you imagine that tribal people voted democratically when they established the few and limited 'governments' they created, or that they let the slaves and women vote?



It is you who insists that consent is measured by having “voted democratically.”  The tribal people had the best kind of consent:  Individual consent.  If an individual did not like the direction the chief was taking the tribe, they could simply go in another direction and as many tribe members as cared to could go with them.  No tribal leader ever attacked, murdered, raped and burned out a break-away band as a punishment for breaking away as Lincoln did.



  

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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #63 - May 8th, 2019 at 8:47am
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Little Big Man wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 8:13am:
It is you who insists that consent is measured by having “voted democratically.”  The tribal people had the best kind of consent:  Individual consent.  If an individual did not like the direction the chief was taking the tribe, they could simply go in another direction and as many tribe members as cared to could go with them.  No tribal leader ever attacked, murdered, raped and burned out a break-away band as a punishment for breaking away as Lincoln did.
If you say so...

Being banished from the tribe was often the equivalent of a death sentence.

Anyway, tribal decisions of importance, like when/where to move or whether or not to go to war were usually decided in a council, generally composed of respected men of the tribe. Sometimes the discussions in the council would change the Chief's mind, sometimes not.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #64 - May 8th, 2019 at 10:01am
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Jeff wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 8:47am:
If you say so...

Being banished from the tribe was often the equivalent of a death sentence.

Anyway, tribal decisions of importance, like when/where to move or whether or not to go to war were usually decided in a council, generally composed of respected men of the tribe. Sometimes the discussions in the council would change the Chief's mind, sometimes not.


An astute analysis.  All that is completely consensual.  If a tribal person believes that without the tribe, he will literally die, he will be motivated to accept the norms and mores of the tribe and to accept decisions made through tribal consensus.  Notice that consent and consensus have the same root. 

If a “brave” were to be “brave” enough to go out on his own, he would be taking the risk that he saw fit.  There are misfits in every population.  Only under modern post-industrial socialism are misfits cared for as if they were important contributors. 

For example, people who do nothing but wait for a welfare check are guaranteed that check with far more certainty than any worker.  Because in our “representative democracy” their vote counts equally with the most productive among us.

The key difference that allowed the tribal people to have a consensual and thus very small and powerless government is that there was an effectively unlimited amount of land on which to live and roam.  In our modern world, every inch of the earth is governed so leaving government means leaving the earth.

It is up to libertarians to come up with a way in which we can eliminate government as tyrant and bring about government as servant.  I’m not sure how we will do that, but I am very sure that the first step will not be to simply announce that it is impossible.

  

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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #65 - May 8th, 2019 at 2:30pm
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Little Big Man wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 10:01am:
It is up to libertarians to come up with a way in which we can eliminate government as tyrant and bring about government as servant.  I’m not sure how we will do that, but I am very sure that the first step will not be to simply announce that it is impossible.

The Constitution as it was ratified and intended to operate did that, made the government the servant of the people.

Since you think taxes are theft, it's up to you and others of like mind to try to create a consensus to amend the Constitution to eliminate the power to tax.
  

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Little Biq Man
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #66 - May 8th, 2019 at 5:49pm
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Jeff wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 2:30pm:
The Constitution as it was ratified and intended to operate did that, made the government the servant of the people
tiny minority of white male landowners.


You call that "fair and open?"


  
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AlayneLeung
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Does HOA have Consent of person(s) respectively Governed of said HOA?
Reply #67 - May 8th, 2019 at 6:22pm
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Hi Little Big Man,

how about you offer your opinion of my idea for a formula for raising money from persons that want unnecessary restrictions of property of which those said unnecessary restrictions of properties within perimeter of a HOA have been agreed to by those said persons of that HOA (that formula should be on page 3) ,

and also how about you answer those numbered questions that I posted on page 4 of this topic before you answer any other questions or before you post any other comments?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #68 - May 8th, 2019 at 7:28pm
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Little Biq Man wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 5:49pm:
You call that "fair and open?"


The people of the time did. In fact they were pretty well satisfied with the way they elected representatives for their colonial governments, and probably wouldn't have rebelled if they had been allowed representation in parliament.

I know you want to bring the entire Constitution up for re-ratification and make it a purely democratic vote for or against, but that's just a really bad idea, especially if 100% agreement is required as you seem to think is necessary to establish consent...

After a few communists and anarchists hold up the re-ratification of the Constitution and it is declared null and void, do you have anything in mind to replace it that will meet with 100% acceptance?
  

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Re: Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?
Reply #69 - May 9th, 2019 at 5:28am
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Little Big Man wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:54pm:
Do Homeowers Associations have Consent of the Governed?I would have to say, “yes.”


What a stupid thread and moronic discussion.  HOAs are contractual agreements, not governments.  This whole discussion makes no sense.

And HOAs are the whole point of libertarianism.  Voluntarily finding a community that represents your values and acts according to your personal views of how your community should be run rather than government passing laws restricting your use of your own property
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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