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EWS
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #10 - May 8th, 2019 at 4:11pm
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Jeff wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 2:36pm:
Is tolerance of other beliefs a Judeo-Christian value? I guess it must be, because the U.S. is founded on the idea of freedom of religion, which includes the freedom to not be religious at all as well as the freedom to worship as you please.


Yes, in fact Freedom of religion is kind of a big deal. So attacking religion, even something one might disagree with, is un-constitutional.  I met an atheist a few years ago, one of the most open minded people I have ever met.  He absolutely hated every other atheist he had ever know simply because they were closed minded. Stone set in their belief that there is no God.  He had a rather good approach to the idea IMO.  He said to me one day " I do not believe in God, the idea is ludicrous to me. But I could be wrong, and I am OK with that. I am open to the idea that some day I could be shown evidence that I cannot deny."  The crime that the left is guilty of is that they are FORCING their ideas on people. They use tools like shaming, shouting down opposition, etc... I disagree with Mormonism and Scientology, but I am not going to go out of my way to stop them from practicing. Now if they try to force those ideas on me or my children, different story.
  
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Jeff
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #11 - May 8th, 2019 at 7:20pm
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EWS wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 4:11pm:
Yes, in fact Freedom of religion is kind of a big deal. So attacking religion, even something one might disagree with, is un-constitutional.  I met an atheist a few years ago, one of the most open minded people I have ever met.  He absolutely hated every other atheist he had ever know simply because they were closed minded. Stone set in their belief that there is no God.  He had a rather good approach to the idea IMO.  He said to me one day " I do not believe in God, the idea is ludicrous to me. But I could be wrong, and I am OK with that. I am open to the idea that some day I could be shown evidence that I cannot deny."  The crime that the left is guilty of is that they are FORCING their ideas on people. They use tools like shaming, shouting down opposition, etc... I disagree with Mormonism and Scientology, but I am not going to go out of my way to stop them from practicing. Now if they try to force those ideas on me or my children, different story.
It's unconstitutional for the government to involve itself in religion.

Free people are free to advocate for or against anything they choose to. Shouting people down is childish and rude, but not illegal unless it becomes intimidation, where there is a reasonable threat of physical force.

Most civilized places have laws/ordinances against creating public disturbances. Smiley
  
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The Opposition
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #12 - May 8th, 2019 at 8:51pm
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EWS wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 4:11pm:
The crime that the left is guilty of is that they are FORCING their ideas on people. They use tools like shaming, shouting down opposition, etc...


Like you just did.

By the way, I reverse my position. White people should have kids if they want to. (Now, cue Jeff to jump on me and call me a hateful bigot, which is why I adjusted my views to be more PC in the first place.)

My only point was that even a noble agenda is still an agenda. It's not science. Science does not and cannot have an agenda, other than to discover truth.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #13 - May 9th, 2019 at 5:20am
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Little Big Man wrote on May 7th, 2019 at 11:57am:
. . . With the laws of science.”
-Stephen Hawking, Brief Answers to Big Questions

This is the kind of thing that it is fine for one to believe in a libertarian system.  Flat earth, God of the Gaps, Creation from Nothing by No Creator, whatever.  Pick one  and mind your own business with it as you see fit.

But when our nation’s proud public schools are proud of disparaging and banning the religions of their students’ parents and at the same time insisting that such religious ideas as those are “settled science,” that children must parrot in order to past mandatory state testing, it is time to realize the folly of government education.

Long past time.


Schools should have nothing to do with religion
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #14 - May 9th, 2019 at 7:53am
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The Opposition wrote on May 8th, 2019 at 8:51pm:
By the way, I reverse my position. White people should have kids if they want to.
How generous of you, how tolerant...
  
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Jeff
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #15 - May 9th, 2019 at 7:56am
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kaz wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 5:20am:
Schools should have nothing to do with religion
Schools should teach the truth about religion's role in societies and history. Teaching history or sociology without mentioning the role of religion amounts to teaching fake history.
  
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EWS
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #16 - May 9th, 2019 at 11:42am
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Jeff wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 7:56am:
Schools should teach the truth about religion's role in societies and history. Teaching history or sociology without mentioning the role of religion amounts to teaching fake history.


That I agree with totally. religion played a huge part in shaping our history and the world we live in now.  Just because you might not like that a thing happened, does not mean it did not or did not impact the world around it.  It's like the new US history books coming out, not mentioning Hillary's loss in 2016.  Personally I hate Hillary and everything she did, but she was/is a very important part of our history. She was the first female Presidential candidate. Yes she got there on lies and deceit and the "mysterious" deaths of anyone who had real dirt on her. But she still deserves a place in the History books for what she "accomplished". 

  We need to teach our children about all parts of history even the ugliest nastiest parts. How can our Children do better than we did if they do not understand where we came from and how things came to be as they are?
  
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Jeff
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #17 - May 9th, 2019 at 1:12pm
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EWS wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 11:42am:

That I agree with totally. religion played a huge part in shaping our history and the world we live in now.  Just because you might not like that a thing happened, does not mean it did not or did not impact the world around it.  It's like the new US history books coming out, not mentioning Hillary's loss in 2016.  Personally I hate Hillary and everything she did, but she was/is a very important part of our history. She was the first female Presidential candidate. Yes she got there on lies and deceit and the "mysterious" deaths of anyone who had real dirt on her. But she still deserves a place in the History books for what she "accomplished". 

  We need to teach our children about all parts of history even the ugliest nastiest parts. How can our Children do better than we did if they do not understand where we came from and how things came to be as they are?
Right. They should also mention the beneficial effects of religion, and teach how the Reformation (which was the reformation of religion) led to the Enlightenment and how that led to the idea that people can govern themselves, an idea that is foundational to modern libertarian thought.
  
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EWS
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #18 - May 9th, 2019 at 5:26pm
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Jeff wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 1:12pm:
Right. They should also mention the beneficial effects of religion, and teach how the Reformation (which was the reformation of religion) led to the Enlightenment and how that led to the idea that people can govern themselves, an idea that is foundational to modern libertarian thought.


Agreed. Everything that happened in the past, good bad and otherwise, shaped who we are now. Religion was/is a HUGE part of history. It played a big part in our separation from England. If we want our children to do better than we did, we need to ensure they know where we came from. whitewashing the history books, or using creative editing, does no one any favors.  I have met kids (by kids I mean 12-15 year olds) how dont have the slightest clue who MLK Jr. really was or why he was so important.  It's sad really. This left/right 2 party BS has put such a disgusting slant on things that happened and why.

For instance I have heard( more than a dozen times) people arguing over the 3/5ths rule.  People knee jerk to "it's racist", well no it's not really, if you understand history and what the framers were thinking at the time.  If you have not already, I recommend reading The 5000 Year Leap. Amazing read, gives a whole new light to the founding documents. really helps put you in the headspace of the framers.


I think I wondered off topic lol
  
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Jeff
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Re: “I Believe the Universe was Created out of Nothing, in Accordance . .
Reply #19 - May 9th, 2019 at 6:06pm
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EWS wrote on May 9th, 2019 at 5:26pm:
Agreed. Everything that happened in the past, good bad and otherwise, shaped who we are now. Religion was/is a HUGE part of history. It played a big part in our separation from England. If we want our children to do better than we did, we need to ensure they know where we came from. whitewashing the history books, or using creative editing, does no one any favors.  I have met kids (by kids I mean 12-15 year olds) how dont have the slightest clue who MLK Jr. really was or why he was so important.  It's sad really. This left/right 2 party BS has put such a disgusting slant on things that happened and why.

For instance I have heard( more than a dozen times) people arguing over the 3/5ths rule.  People knee jerk to "it's racist", well no it's not really, if you understand history and what the framers were thinking at the time.  If you have not already, I recommend reading The 5000 Year Leap. Amazing read, gives a whole new light to the founding documents. really helps put you in the headspace of the framers.


I think I wondered off topic lol
The thread was off topic already as they almost always are.

You were right on topic for the current topic, and I think you should say more, thank you.

As long as the TwoParties have control of the electoral process, our government will remain politicized and continue to try to polarize Americans.

As long as so much power and wealth are available to "the government", it will remain corrupt.

As long as individuals in government who break laws and violate our rights are not punished, they will not change their ways.

When Presidents and bureaucrats make laws and nobody in "the government" protests, the danger of tyranny is critical.


  
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