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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US (Read 663 times)
Jeff
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #30 - May 14th, 2019 at 11:58am
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SkyChief wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 10:59am:
No. 
An "Elder" must:
1) be old.
2) be a permanent resident of Slab City or a certain amount of time (unknown).

Doesn't need to.  Because nobody is "governed". (in my understanding)The Council of Elders plays a judiciary role only.  Think of them as a mini "Supreme Court"

That's basically it.  They have the power to banish evildoers.  There is no Jail in Slab City, so serious offenders are banished.

Its interesting to note that is exactly how Liberland would deal with the most serious criminals - they would simply banish them.  There are no jails or prisons in Liberland, either.

One of the Elders told a story about a banished offender who returned to Slab City.  Apparently "Someone" burned down the man's trailer when he was away foraging for supplies.   Then the Elder winked at the camera.   Wink
The power to banish is a governmental power, and banishment is a serious punishment.

I'm not sure I like the idea of being ruled by un-elected people whose only claim to authority is being old.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #31 - May 14th, 2019 at 12:12pm
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Jeff wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 11:58am:
The power to banish is a governmental power, and banishment is a serious punishment.

In a libertarian society (such as Slab City or Liberland), banishment is not a "punishment".

Its simply a way of saying:

"We're tired of your shit.  You don't fit in here.  Now get the fu_k out.  Don't come back."

Same as any bar owner would do to a belligerent drunkard who is antagonizing the customers.  He tells the drunk to leave.   It's not intended as punishment.   It's intended to get rid of a menace.
  
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #32 - May 14th, 2019 at 2:04pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 12:12pm:
In a libertarian society (such as Slab City or Liberland), banishment is not a "punishment".

Its simply a way of saying:

"We're tired of your shit.  You don't fit in here.  Now get the fu_k out.  Don't come back."

Same as any bar owner would do to a belligerent drunkard who is antagonizing the customers.  He tells the drunk to leave.   It's not intended as punishment.   It's intended to get rid of a menace.
Are there specific things that carry the punishment of banishment or is it strictly up to the judgement of the oldest people there?

The difference I see is that the bar owner owns the bar, but the federal government 'owns' Slab City.
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #33 - May 14th, 2019 at 2:55pm
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Jeff wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 2:04pm:
Are there specific things that carry the punishment of banishment or is it strictly up to the judgement of the oldest people there?

I've already explained that banishment is NOT a punishment.   I even offered a scenario to show why it is not punishment.

Banishment is a last-resort measure to deal with an incorrigible offender.   It's 100% effective.   And it costs nothing.

It works in a bar, and it works in Slab City.   

The libertarian country of Liberland has provisions in its Constitution for banishment, too.  Not as a punishment.   They don't want to waste money on judiciary and prisons.  There are no taxes in Liberland, so they don't have the funding to incarcerate/punish people.       So they banish.

Same with Slab City.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #34 - May 14th, 2019 at 5:07pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
I've already explained that banishment is NOT a punishment.   I even offered a scenario to show why it is not punishment.

Banishment is a last-resort measure to deal with an incorrigible offender.   It's 100% effective.   And it costs nothing.

It works in a bar, and it works in Slab City.   

The libertarian country of Liberland has provisions in its Constitution for banishment, too.  Not as a punishment.   They don't want to waste money on judiciary and prisons.  There are no taxes in Liberland, so they don't have the funding to incarcerate/punish people.       So they banish.

Same with Slab City.
It doesn't appeal to me.

I'm OK with an owner telling me to leave, but I don't like the idea of the Slab City Council of (un-elected) Elders telling me to leave when they no more own Slab City than I do.

Will they send people with guns to enforce their decision?


  

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SkyChief
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #35 - May 14th, 2019 at 6:32pm
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Jeff wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 5:07pm:
I'm OK with an owner telling me to leave, but I don't like the idea of the Slab City Council of (un-elected) Elders telling me to leave when they no more own Slab City than I do.
You would have to commit a very serious crime before you were banished.   I don't know your criminal history, but if heinous crimes is your thing, then Slab City would probably not be a good place for you. 

You might enjoy a one-day visit to get an idea of how libertarianism works in a real-world setting.

They have a good open-mic blues show each nite at The Range.  No cover charge.    Bring some chilled beers to share - they'll love you like a brother!

Jeff wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 5:07pm:
Will they send people with guns to enforce their decision?

Yes. Most of the Slab City residents have guns, so presumably the Elders who order you to leave will be backed with firearms of some kind.   Again, it sounds like you wouldn't fit in very well in Slab City.

  
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Jeff
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #36 - May 14th, 2019 at 8:08pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 6:32pm:
You might enjoy a one-day visit to get an idea of how libertarianism works in a real-world setting.
When you said "anything goes" in Slab City, it made me curious about what sorts of things go on. As you progress, it sounds like a pretty normal community except the landlord cant be trusted.
  

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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #37 - May 14th, 2019 at 8:13pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 6:32pm:
Yes. Most of the Slab City residents have guns, so presumably the Elders who order you to leave will be backed with firearms of some kind.   Again, it sounds like you wouldn't fit in very well in Slab City.

I was asking hypothetical questions. I have guns and like to shoot. I was just thinking about potential conflicts that might arise. If someone rapes and beats my wife, I don't want him banished but I would appreciate help in holding him until the Sheriffs get there to arrest him.

That might put me at odds with the elders, although I guess I would be one myself... I'm not interested in being on a council of any sort.

What other sorts of things might cause the elders to order me to leave?

I burn old tires in my woodstove to make heat... It makes a lot of nasty black carcinogenic smoke that really smells bad and leaves black soot all over the area... But it cheap and I like it and anything goes right?
  

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SkyChief
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #38 - May 14th, 2019 at 9:37pm
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Jeff wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 8:13pm:
I was asking hypothetical questions. I have guns and like to shoot. I was just thinking about potential conflicts that might arise. If someone rapes and beats my wife, I don't want him banished but I would appreciate help in holding him until the Sheriffs get there to arrest him.
You may not want him banished, but others in the community might. Even if the Sheriff arrested and jailed the perp, the Elders might agree that banishment is necessary.  They seem to be a reasonable group of fellows, perhaps you could appeal to the Elders on the perp's behalf.

Jeff wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 8:13pm:
I burn old tires in my woodstove to make heat... It makes a lot of nasty black carcinogenic smoke that really smells bad and leaves black soot all over the area... But it cheap and I like it and anything goes right?
Check with your neighbors and find out if the carcinogenic smoke bothers them.  If it does, you can always move to a different slab far away from others so the smoke from your stove won't harm anyone.

Respecting your neighbors' rights is highly encouraged in Slab City - as it would be in any libertarian community.
  
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Re: Slab City - The Last Libertarian Community In The US
Reply #39 - May 14th, 2019 at 9:57pm
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Strictly speaking, banishment flies in the face of property rights. (That's saying nothing of what the Elder, or "someone" did.)

If you own a trailer, yes, banishment would be libertarian. The perfect solution.

If you own land in Slab City, banishing you off your own land is wrong, regardless of your crime.

What the libertarian solution is, I cannot say. I can see only that Slab City benefits by banishing people at the expense of the rest of the world, which has to deal with the criminals.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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