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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rights and Self-Defence (Read 3401 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #10 - May 24th, 2019 at 9:48am
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SkyChief wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 10:10pm:
Good.

As we have already agreed on the axiom that everyone has the right to self-defend, you are just being facetious.

which is what I suspected all along.

I'll let you and Jeff duke it out. . .



I never agreed that everyone has the right of self-defence.

I pointed out that you can't have self-defence without self-ownership.

Libertarians want to declare that some people don't have rights and then ignore the consequences.

You make the claim that I have rights. Provide evidence. I already have tons of evidence that I have no rights.

Jeff wrote on Feb 24th, 2018 at 7:49am:
You have no more rights than an animal, because your understanding of rights is at the level of a predatory animal.


Tommy Palven wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 5:26am:
But, it seems just as hard to prove that these rights that God allegedly gave to "all men" actually exist as it is to prove that the Divine Rights of Kings actually exist.


This is true. It's because rights cannot be questioned.

Oh, you can take drugs and it's impermissible for anyone to stop you because rights?

Well, some tyrant is going to use that exact same argument to say that he may rule on high, and it's impermissible to stop him, because rights.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #11 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:00am
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The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 9:48am:
Libertarians want to declare that some people don't have rights and then ignore the consequences


Everyone has negative rights, no one has positive rights.

There are no rights that some people have and others don't.

Your not choosing to exercise your rights is not synonymous with you not having the right.  Sorry, you're stuck with them.  You can't disavow your natural rights.  Note that natural rights are ALL negative rights
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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kaz
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #12 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:03am
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The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 9:48am:
Oh, you can take drugs and it's impermissible for anyone to stop you because rights?


It's impossible to stop you because it's your body.  However, you are responsible for what you do on the drugs as if it was intentional because you intentionally took the drugs.  That is the libertarian system

The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 9:48am:
Well, some tyrant is going to use that exact same argument to say that he may rule on high, and it's impermissible to stop him, because rights.


Drugs are negative rights, ruling over subjects are positive rights.  They are not the same, they in fact have nothing to do with each other.

You claimed to read everything, you just don't understand it.  So are you not understanding this, or are you not reading it?

https://www.libertarianism.org/media/around-web/negative-rights-vs-positive-righ...

  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #13 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:25am
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kaz wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 10:00am:
There are no rights that some people have and others don't.


Bullshit. If I have rights, provide evidence.

I've already provided evidence that I don't have rights.

I don't want to have a discussion about negative and positive rights because I provide links and you ignore them. Being free from interference when you do a thing is exactly what I posited. You don't care. You'll use libertarian logic and shout me down, call me stupid, and win.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #14 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:27am
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The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 10:25am:
Bullshit. If I have rights, provide evidence


If you're talking about libertarians, then you have the right to be left alone.  I don't need to prove that, it's the basic philosophy.  You have the right to do whatever you want as long as you don't infringe on the right of others to do the same.

If you're not talking about libertarians and just mean humanity in general, then I just lost interest, I don't care what they think
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #15 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:40am
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The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 10:25am:
I've already provided evidence that I don't have rights.
No you haven't. It can't be done.
  

"Free hate speech"
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SkyChief
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #16 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:56am
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The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 9:48am:
I never agreed that everyone has the right of self-defence.

I pointed out that you can't have self-defence without self-ownership.

Sure you can.   A slave doesn't have self ownership, but he can still defend himself.  If he has the will to.

If his master beats him, he can fight back and choke the master to death.  (He would be right to do so, IMO.)

The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 9:48am:
Libertarians want to declare that some people don't have rights and then ignore the consequences.

You make the claim that I have rights. Provide evidence. I already have tons of evidence that I have no rights.

You think you have no rights, but you do.  You have the same natural rights that everyone has - whether you admit it or not.

The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 9:48am:
Oh, you can take drugs and it's impermissible for anyone to stop you because rights?
They can stop you, but your right cannot be taken away.   

A government can make cannabis illegal, but that doesn't take away your natural right to use it.
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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kaz
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #17 - May 24th, 2019 at 11:01am
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The Opposition wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 10:25am:
I provide links and you ignore them


Look you little fcker.  I told you I don't read your stupid crap with Jeff.  I read the rest of your posts, and I didn't ignore any links.

Don't give me this stupid crap that I'm expected to read your drivel with Jeff. Go screw yourself, I'm not doing that.  And you're not holding me to the standard that I am required to
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Tommy Palven
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #18 - May 24th, 2019 at 4:54pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 10:56am:
You think you have no rights, but you do.  You have the same natural rights that everyone has - whether you admit it or not.


How did people, Guatemalans, Iranians, everyone, acquire these alleged natural rights?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #19 - May 24th, 2019 at 7:22pm
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Tommy Palven wrote on May 24th, 2019 at 4:54pm:
How did people, Guatemalans, Iranians, everyone, acquire these alleged natural rights?

They were born with them.

English philosopher John Locke said that the most important natural rights are "Life, Liberty, and Property".

Self-ownership, self-defense, freedom of speech, are also natural rights.

“The State can't give you freedom, and the State can't take it away. You're born with it, like your eyes, like your ears. Freedom is something you assume, then you wait for someone to try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free...”   - Utah Phillips
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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