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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rights and Self-Defence (Read 3405 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #60 - May 29th, 2019 at 9:47pm
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Jeff wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 4:36pm:
A good working knowledge of bureaucracies, which you obviously don't have, allows people to broadly state that bureaucracies do everything worse.


So how is public school not a bureaucracy?

Jeff wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 4:42pm:
You raise a good point, that regulation has motivations beyond the stated purpose, but in fact the FDA can't be credited with keeping people safe, they simply claim the credit because they like their cushy jobs and good benefits. "Look people, (almost) no one died from bad drugs, and we here at the FDA claim credit for that!", but of course some people did die because the FDA held up approval for a drug that would have saved their lives.


They do a terrible job with drugs, probably because drugs are expected to have side effects and are generally for people who are sick anyway.

But they get an A+ for food, probably because people know exactly when they get sick from eating something.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #61 - May 30th, 2019 at 7:33am
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The Opposition wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 9:47pm:
So how is public school not a bureaucracy?


State and federal departments of education are bureaucracies, local parents and teachers and school boards are not.

If you had been paying any attention to what I've been saying, it's that the state and federal departments of education are the problem, and that they are bureaucracies is a large part of the reason they are a problem.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #62 - May 30th, 2019 at 7:37am
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The Opposition wrote on May 29th, 2019 at 9:47pm:
They do a terrible job with drugs, probably because drugs are expected to have side effects and are generally for people who are sick anyway.

But they get an A+ for food, probably because people know exactly when they get sick from eating something.
That you can buy safe food is almost entirely due to the fact that businesses that sell food do not want to be in the headlines for making people sick or killing people, plus the additional fact that they would feel they had done something seriously wrong by selling tainted or spoiled food. Somewhere on that list is also the fact that they might be held liable in civil suits and financially ruined.

Do you know anything at all about how FDA bureaucrats actually "inspect" food? Probably not...
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #63 - May 30th, 2019 at 10:36am
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Jeff wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 7:37am:
That you can buy safe food is almost entirely due to the fact that businesses that sell food do not want to be in the headlines for making people sick or killing people, plus the additional fact that they would feel they had done something seriously wrong by selling tainted or spoiled food. Somewhere on that list is also the fact that they might be held liable in civil suits and financially ruined.


Yet this isn't true for drugs. Maybe it's the FDA's poor performance here that makes a difference.

Jeff wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 7:33am:
State and federal departments of education are bureaucracies, local parents and teachers and school boards are not.


This is just a definitional statement. You've defined local school boards as automatically not a bureaucracy.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #64 - May 30th, 2019 at 11:15am
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The Opposition wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 10:36am:
Yet this isn't true for drugs. Maybe it's the FDA's poor performance here that makes a difference.
In fact I think the difference is because drugs are so highly regulated. If food in general was as highly regulated as are drugs, you could draw better parallels between them... Although drug companies also are perhaps somewhat motivated to not have headlines identifying them as the people who caused a rash of birth defects...
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #65 - May 30th, 2019 at 11:18am
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The Opposition wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 10:36am:
This is just a definitional statement. You've defined local school boards as automatically not a bureaucracy.
If a school board is a bureaucracy, it is almost certainly not local but rather a board that has taken responsibility for something like the Chicago Consolidated School System, which is not what I mean when I say "local schools".
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #66 - May 30th, 2019 at 9:35pm
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Jeff wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 11:18am:
If a school board is a bureaucracy, it is almost certainly not local but rather a board that has taken responsibility for something like the Chicago Consolidated School System, which is not what I mean when I say "local schools".


Mean whatever you like. You give them the power and they'll do it their way, not yours.

You just said they should have the power to take money.

Conditional power doesn't exist. "You have this power, but only if you-"

Yeah, the people you gave power to just stopped listening right there, because you gave them the power.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #67 - May 31st, 2019 at 6:22am
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The Opposition wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 9:35pm:
Mean whatever you like. You give them the power and they'll do it their way, not yours.

Local school boards must work with parents and teachers and school administrators if they hope to create a good plan for educating the local children.
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #68 - May 31st, 2019 at 6:25am
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The Opposition wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 9:35pm:
You just said they should have the power to take money.
No, no, local school boards and PTAs and teachers and school administrators have to work with whatever funds are allocated to them by the local government. It's the local government that has been given a conditional power to tax.

How can you be so consistently confused? It must be because you live on another planet...
  

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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #69 - May 31st, 2019 at 6:26am
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The Opposition wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 9:35pm:
Conditional power doesn't exist. "You have this power, but only if you-"

Where I live, the local government's power to raise taxes on property is contingent on the approval of the people, which must be given through a democratic vote. (No, school children don't get to vote.)

That's a conditional power.
  

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