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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rights and Self-Defence (Read 1615 times)
Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #80 - May 31st, 2019 at 4:25pm
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Little Big Man wrote on May 31st, 2019 at 12:02pm:
Where/when is public school done correctly?  Name the districts.
Get busy! Try to make yours better! Maybe it will become an award winning school district that becomes a model for others to use and adapt.

It could ultimately be as good as a school district from the '50s...

But it's up to you. I know nothing about your school district.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #81 - May 31st, 2019 at 9:03pm
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kaz wrote on May 31st, 2019 at 3:06pm:
I'm against government schools just like I was every other time you said that, fvcktard.  You are spending too  much time getting hammered with Jeff, you're losing your long term memory


If you're not for public schools, then why did you refute my argument against public schools?

Jeff wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 11:18am:
If a school board is a bureaucracy, it is almost certainly not local but rather a board that has taken responsibility for something like the Chicago Consolidated School System, which is not what I mean when I say "local schools".


The Opposition wrote on May 30th, 2019 at 9:35pm:
Mean whatever you like. You give them the power and they'll do it their way, not yours.

You just said they should have the power to take money.

Conditional power doesn't exist. "You have this power, but only if you-"

Yeah, the people you gave power to just stopped listening right there, because you gave them the power.


kaz wrote on May 31st, 2019 at 6:43am:
Opposition:  OMG, there's not a perfect solution.  God swore to me before I was born that there was always a perfect solution in life, all I had to do was find it, follow it, then I don't need to think anymore

No, he didn't

Opposition:  Well, I'm still not going to think.  If we can't have a perfect government, then let's all sit down and wait to be killed or conquered into slavery. One thing I'm not doing is thinking, particularly about anything gray


This was the conversation.

1. Jeff is for public schools having power to take money involuntarily if they're done his way (locally, with the approval of local communities).

2. Opposition suggests that once they have the power to take money, they will no longer operate within Jeff's caveats.

3. Kaz refutes Opposition's argument.

Kaz does not say he agrees there should not be public schools but that Opposition just made a terrible argument, but here's a good one. Kaz simply refuted the argument cleanly.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #82 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 6:47am
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The Opposition wrote on May 31st, 2019 at 9:03pm:
1. Jeff is for public schools having power to take money involuntarily if they're done his way (locally, with the approval of local communities).

Schools have to make do with what they are given out of the local tax money, and the local taxes have to be approved by the people in the local community. How the collected revenue is spent is decided by the elected local governments.


  
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The Opposition
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #83 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 11:15am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 1st, 2019 at 6:47am:
Schools have to make do with what they are given


That would be wonderful!

Jeff wrote on Jun 1st, 2019 at 6:47am:
out of the local tax money,


....Oh.

So yes, they - the local community - should have the power to give their public schools as much money as they "need". From the pockets of others in the community, of course.

Not a wealth transfer.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #84 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 12:28pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 1st, 2019 at 11:15am:
So yes, they - the local community - should have the power to give their public schools as much money as they "need". From the pockets of others in the community, of course.

Not a wealth transfer.
No. The collected revenue is not transferred to other individuals for them to decide how to use. It is paid as wages and salaries to school personnel in return for their performance of their duties.

And it is not the community that allocates the revenue or the community that collects the revenue. Those things are done by the local government, which is chosen by democratic means from among members of the community.

How is it done on your planet?
  
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kaz
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #85 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 1:48pm
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The Opposition wrote on May 31st, 2019 at 9:03pm:
If you're not for public schools, then why did you refute my argument against public schools?




This was the conversation.

1. Jeff is for public schools having power to take money involuntarily if they're done his way (locally, with the approval of local communities).

2. Opposition suggests that once they have the power to take money, they will no longer operate within Jeff's caveats.

3. Kaz refutes Opposition's argument.

Kaz does not say he agrees there should not be public schools but that Opposition just made a terrible argument, but here's a good one. Kaz simply refuted the argument cleanly.



You remember that, and you don't remember the last half dozen times you said I am for government schools and I called you stupid and said that was Jeff?

I took your statement to mean that allowing government to tax is allowing it to spend money on anything it wants to spend it on.  That we can't allow government to tax unless we are accepting that.  That is what I was disagreeing with.

A government that cannot tax will just result in our being conquered and taxed even more
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #86 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 5:04pm
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kaz wrote on Jun 1st, 2019 at 1:48pm:
I took your statement to mean that allowing government to tax is allowing it to spend money on anything it wants to spend it on.
Yes, the lizard comes back to that from time to time, and it gets good support on the premise from it's sock puppets.

I've tried to straighten it out, telling it that both the taxing power and the power to spend are limited, but it is pretty much impervious to facts or reason.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #87 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 1:55pm
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"Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It's just ganging up against the weird kid, and I'm always the weird kid." - Penn Jillette.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #88 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 10:11pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 1:55pm:
"Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It's just ganging up against the weird kid, and I'm always the weird kid." - Penn Jillette.


I don't have much sympathy for that, since that result follows directly from rights.

If no one has any rights, everyone can always self-defend.

Only if some people have rights and some do not can there be a situation where somebody is deprived of that.

Every time rights rear their heads, someone is getting punished for something they didn't do, or ganged up on, or bullied. Every time rights come into it, that's the plan from the beginning.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: Rights and Self-Defence
Reply #89 - Jun 5th, 2019 at 10:32pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 5th, 2019 at 10:11pm:
I don't have much sympathy for that, since that result follows directly from rights.

If no one has any rights, everyone can always self-defend.

Wealth and property should never be equally distributed.

Ideally, rights should.  That's the fundamental goal of Lawmakers.  That's the fundamental objective of the justice system.

It doesn't always work that way, I know.  That's why we elect representative lawmakers to Congress and state legislatures - to fix the bad laws.  And there are many!   Embarrassed
  
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