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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy (Read 2466 times)
Jeff
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #10 - May 28th, 2019 at 10:58am
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The Opposition wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 9:28am:
I don't think it's our job to make the world better.

Thinking it is has made the world a lot worse.

Neither is it "our" job to make individual people "better", but we can take action to limit and hinder and sometimes stop people engaged in wrong behaviors, like trying to conquer the world or create a tyrannical empire by force or get away with burglarizing a different home every night.

Lets try to catch the burglar before he gets to my house, thanks.
  

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Jeff
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #11 - May 28th, 2019 at 11:05am
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The Opposition wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 9:42am:
I don't think "he's too big, he's too powerful, he's aggressive" counts as a direct threat.

Not by itself, no, actions are also important.

I am in agreement that the "progressive" impulse, when people who possessed it have had control of America's government, has led to empire building and plenty of other nasty things around the world, but the Nazis in Germany were conquering counties and had a well known plan to keep on doing it until they controlled all of Europe and maybe some parts of North Africa too... And part of their plan involved creating a "Master Race", in part by murdering anybody they thought didn't qualify.

It's the aggression that had already occurred (and the well known plan for it's continuation) that made stopping Nazi Germany and it's allies a moral action.

Not possessing any human sense of morality at all, you won't be able to ever understand this...
  

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SkyChief
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #12 - May 28th, 2019 at 1:57pm
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The Opposition wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 9:28am:
I don't think it's our job to make the world better.
You're right - it's not. 

120 years ago, America was the shining city on the hill because of liberty and freedom.   People from all over the globe wanted a taste of it, and were so proud to become Americans.

Today, those freedoms have been eroded badly.  People still flock here - but mainly to escape the socialist shit-hole countries they came from.  They're not interested in adopting American culture.

The Opposition wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 9:28am:
Thinking it is has made the world a lot worse.

+1     Smiley
  
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Jeff
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #13 - May 28th, 2019 at 2:54pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 1:57pm:
They're not interested in adopting American culture.

Neither were many of the waves of various immigrants who came to America in the past, but most usually, their children wanted nothing but to be Americans, and that's what they became. Smiley
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #14 - May 28th, 2019 at 4:05pm
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Jeff wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 2:54pm:
Neither were many of the waves of various immigrants who came to America in the past, but most usually, their children wanted nothing but to be Americans, and that's what they became. Smiley


That's a good point. 

But there has been one stunning exception and that is Muslim immigrants.  Not all, but far too many second generation Americans who follow that sociopathic political/religious movement are taking its teachings about killing infidels literally.  It would be as if Jewish immigrants thrived as entrepreneurs (as they did), but their children became zealots who literally kill men who lie with other men or if Christian immigrants worked hard at farming (as they did) but their children tried to take us back to the burnings-at-the-stake practiced by the early church.

  

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Jeff
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #15 - May 28th, 2019 at 7:27pm
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Little Big Man wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 4:05pm:
That's a good point. 

But there has been one stunning exception and that is Muslim immigrants.
Citation needed. Smiley
  

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Jeff
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #16 - May 28th, 2019 at 7:29pm
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Little Big Man wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 4:05pm:
It would be as if Jewish immigrants thrived as entrepreneurs (as they did), but their children became zealots who literally kill men who lie with other men or if Christian immigrants worked hard at farming (as they did) but their children tried to take us back to the burnings-at-the-stake practiced by the early church.

As they did?

You need to provide citations for all of that crap... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  

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kaz
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #17 - May 28th, 2019 at 7:30pm
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Little Big Man wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 4:05pm:
That's a good point. 

But there has been one stunning exception and that is Muslim immigrants.  Not all, but far too many second generation Americans who follow that sociopathic political/religious movement are taking its teachings about killing infidels literally.  It would be as if Jewish immigrants thrived as entrepreneurs (as they did), but their children became zealots who literally kill men who lie with other men or if Christian immigrants worked hard at farming (as they did) but their children tried to take us back to the burnings-at-the-stake practiced by the early church.



That's the exception, not the rule.  Muslims integrate far better in to US culture than Europe, which is the main reason we have so few successful attacks compared to Europe.  Muslims here turn them in.  Muslims in Europe don't
  

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Jeff
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #18 - May 28th, 2019 at 7:45pm
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kaz wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 7:30pm:
Muslims here turn them in.  Muslims in Europe don't
Really? Citation needed. Smiley
  

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The Opposition
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Re: A Libertarian Approach To Foreign Policy
Reply #19 - May 28th, 2019 at 9:59pm
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Jeff wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 11:05am:
Not by itself, no, actions are also important.

I am in agreement that the "progressive" impulse, when people who possessed it have had control of America's government, has led to empire building and plenty of other nasty things around the world, but the Nazis in Germany were conquering counties and had a well known plan to keep on doing it until they controlled all of Europe and maybe some parts of North Africa too... And part of their plan involved creating a "Master Race", in part by murdering anybody they thought didn't qualify.

It's the aggression that had already occurred (and the well known plan for it's continuation) that made stopping Nazi Germany and it's allies a moral action.

Not possessing any human sense of morality at all, you won't be able to ever understand this...


I think Vulcan morality applies better here.

I'm not saying most Vulcans wouldn't make an exception here. In fact I'm sure they would.

But as far as Surak's teachings go, you cannot get less violence by adding more violence.

You cannot teach people that beating up others is bad by beating them up.

Jeff wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 7:27pm:
Citation needed. Smiley


As usual, the libertarian answer to a problem that doesn't fit into their way of thinking is that the problem doesn't exist.

In this case I agree that Muslims are not one whit more violent than anyone else. But so what? What if there was such a group? What if certain immigrants were dangerous?

Well, your hardcore individualist philosophy falls apart, so whether they're dangerous or not, you'll insist there's no problem.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
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