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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Universal Declaration Of Human Rights (Read 710 times)
Jeff
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #10 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 8:10am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 3rd, 2019 at 9:21pm:
I need evidence if you say I have something.

I have evidence that libertarians have rights.
I'm starting to think we should have some evidence of your claimed genius...
  

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The Opposition
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #11 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:27am
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kaz wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 7:16am:
There's a dog next door who just whines all day when his master is at work.  If dogs could type, I would swear it was you


I wonder why you see stating facts as complaining.

Could it be you'd just like me to stop stating facts (like that I don't have rights) because it draws attention to the fact that your ideology is purely about dominating others?

I change my position when you prove me wrong (about the car insurance thing for example; I don't like that I should be forced to have it, but if I drive on public roads, I should be forced to have it). Perhaps if you want me to stop saying that I don't have rights, you should prove that I do. And no, "the people who say you don't have rights aren't libertarian" doesn't count.

Actual proof.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #12 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:35am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:27am:
I wonder why you see stating facts as complaining.

Could it be you'd just like me to stop stating facts (like that I don't have rights) because it draws attention to the fact that your ideology is purely about dominating others?

I change my position when you prove me wrong (about the car insurance thing for example; I don't like that I should be forced to have it, but if I drive on public roads, I should be forced to have it). Perhaps if you want me to stop saying that I don't have rights, you should prove that I do. And no, "the people who say you don't have rights aren't libertarian" doesn't count.

Actual proof.


You didn't say any facts, you were blathering on about not having rights.  You were engaging in foreplay with your dominatrix, Jeff.  Do you guys have phone sex afterwards?
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #13 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:41am
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Sorry, I don't have rights. That's a fact.

If you have evidence I'm wrong, I'm always ready to listen.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #14 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:51am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:41am:
Sorry, I don't have rights. That's a fact.

If you have evidence I'm wrong, I'm always ready to listen.


You don't have a choice in the matter.  No one gives a shit if you think you have rights or not
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #15 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 10:02am
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kaz wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:51am:
You don't have a choice in the matter.


Correct. If I have rights, then I have them. If I don't, then I don't.

The latter is the truth. I do not have rights.

kaz wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:51am:
No one gives a shit if you think you have rights or not


I also think I don't have a unicorn. If you say I do have a unicorn, I'm going to at least go and look in my back yard (which is more than I owe you, since you're making a positive claim and all) to see if it's true, because if I do have a unicorn, I should probably at least feed it.

I've looked. [I've explored the literature instrumental in elucidating rights.]

It's not there. [I've evaluated the evidence.]

You've got nothing.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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kaz
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #16 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 10:22am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 10:02am:
Correct. If I have rights, then I have them. If I don't, then I don't.

The latter is the truth. I do not have rights.


I also think I don't have a unicorn. If you say I do have a unicorn, I'm going to at least go and look in my back yard (which is more than I owe you, since you're making a positive claim and all) to see if it's true, because if I do have a unicorn, I should probably at least feed it.

I've looked. [I've explored the literature instrumental in elucidating rights.]

It's not there. [I've evaluated the evidence.]

You've got nothing.


If you don't have rights, then you have no ability to resist when I say you do have rights.  And since you just admitted you have rights, you have rights.

If you resist my saying you have rights, then you are asserting that you have rights.

You can't win
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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The Opposition
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #17 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 11:06am
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kaz wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 10:22am:
If you don't have rights, then you have no ability to resist when I say you do have rights.


Since I'm not the one you're imposing on, that argument fails.

When you say that I have rights, you are imposing nothing on me.

You are in fact imposing on others, not to (for example) kill me.

They do have rights, and they can, and should, resist the unjust imposition.

Your argument fails again when the next person says I don't have rights. Let's say you're correct, and I must simply accede to your imposition that I say I have rights.

(And it may very well be the case that I must say I have rights, but it doesn't make it true.)

The next person to say I don't have rights, I must simply accede again.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #18 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 11:40am
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kaz wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:35am:
You were engaging in foreplay with your dominatrix, Jeff.  Do you guys have phone sex afterwards?
No, we both get off on the witty repartee on the forum. Nothing more is required!
  

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kaz
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Re: Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
Reply #19 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 11:42am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 4th, 2019 at 11:06am:
Since I'm not the one you're imposing on, that argument fails.

When you say that I have rights, you are imposing nothing on me.

You are in fact imposing on others, not to (for example) kill me.

They do have rights, and they can, and should, resist the unjust imposition.

Your argument fails again when the next person says I don't have rights. Let's say you're correct, and I must simply accede to your imposition that I say I have rights.

(And it may very well be the case that I must say I have rights, but it doesn't make it true.)

The next person to say I don't have rights, I must simply accede again.


Here's the catch 22 for you.  For all that to work, you would have to have not resisted not having rights.  All of that would need to have been tacit.  Your resistance to having rights rights is exercising your rights, which proves you have them.  But if you didn't resist that you have rights, then still they would have been assigned to you proving you have rights.

More directly, if Jeff were to agree you have no rights and shoot you, we'd hang him by the nearest tree anyway because we wouldn't accept you had no rights.  Once again, proving you have rights whether you want them or not
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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