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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies (Read 1355 times)
Jeff
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #70 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 5:07pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 5:01pm:
Whose side do you take, Jeff? And why?
Not yours, because you've mixed up torts with crimes and stirred well, then shaken.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #71 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 5:24pm
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Let's say Billy steals Sally's wallet, with $120 inside.

Sally takes Billy to court. The judge rules that Billy should make restitution - pay me back exactly $120 - and then be let go.

The judge insists that Sally's been made whole, so she can't complain anymore.

But Sally says that's bollocks. "The criminal will just steal again," she pleads, "because you're just going to tell him to give it back each time. He can't lose, and he can only win, so he'll steal until he wins."

"You've been made whole. Justice is done." says the judge.

Whose side do you take, Jeff? And why?

https://legalbeagle.com/8304658-sue-someone-stole-stuff.html
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If you have evidence that a particular person stole your property, you can file a case in civil court in the county where the theft occurred. Ask the court for an order requiring the person to return the articles to you in good condition or else pay you the value of the articles stolen.


Should this be the limit of punishment for theft? Why or why not?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #72 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 5:31pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 5:24pm:
Let's say Billy steals Sally's wallet, with $120 inside.

Sally takes Billy to court. The judge rules that Billy should make restitution - pay me back exactly $120 - and then be let go.

The judge insists that Sally's been made whole, so she can't complain anymore.

But Sally says that's bollocks. "The criminal will just steal again," she pleads, "because you're just going to tell him to give it back each time. He can't lose, and he can only win, so he'll steal until he wins."

"You've been made whole. Justice is done." says the judge.

Whose side do you take, Jeff? And why?

https://legalbeagle.com/8304658-sue-someone-stole-stuff.html

Should this be the limit of punishment for theft? Why or why not?
Theft is a crime. There are punishments for theft contained in the laws. Depending on how much you steal and any aggravating circumstances, they vary.

Torts demand restitution. At the root of tort law is the requirement to make the person you have harmed whole.

I do not take your side, because you are confusing and mixing torts with crimes.

In a real scenario, here on Earth, the cops take Billy to jail and get ready to present the evidence to a grand jury so Billy can be indicted for theft.

Edit: Hopefully the police recover your money and return it to you. If not, you can file a civil suit to recover the money from Billy.
« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2019 at 7:33pm by Jeff »  
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The Opposition
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #73 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 7:33pm
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Libertarians can't even answer a simple question about whether restitution should be the limit of punishment for theft or not.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #74 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 7:35pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
Libertarians can't even answer a simple question about whether restitution should be the limit of punishment for theft or not.
The answer is no for most people. Most people think thieves should be punished. I assume that includes most libertarians, but I don't really know.
  
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kaz
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #75 - Jun 9th, 2019 at 8:44pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 7:33pm:
Libertarians can't even answer a simple question about whether restitution should be the limit of punishment for theft or not.


Of course not.  Restitution is what what you get from the civil case.  There is also the criminal case.  Depending what they did exactly, they should be subject to a jail term and a record.

And you're full of shit I wouldn't answer that.  I said they should be punished to prevent future victims.

You really need to get over your man crush you have on Jeff.  You have it for him bad.  I don't see it, but the two of you do both love to bicker
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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Jeff
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #76 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 6:41am
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kaz wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 8:44pm:
You really need to get over your man crush you have on Jeff.  You have it for him bad.  I don't see it, but the two of you do both love to bicker
Haven't you been looking for manly men with big balls lately?
  
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kaz
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #77 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 7:01am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 6:41am:
Haven't you been looking for manly men with big balls lately?


Jeff:  I have nothing, kaz.  I'm just going to repeat back to you what you said to me
  

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Jeff
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #78 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 7:02am
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kaz wrote on Jun 10th, 2019 at 7:01am:
Jeff:  I have nothing, kaz.  I'm just going to repeat back to you what you said to me
Of course not.  Restitution is what what you get from the civil case.  There is also the criminal case.  Depending what they did exactly, they should be subject to a jail term and a record.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Parkland "Coward Of Broward" Is In Jail - Charged With 11 Felonies
Reply #79 - Jun 10th, 2019 at 9:11am
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kaz wrote on Jun 9th, 2019 at 8:44pm:
Of course not.  Restitution is what what you get from the civil case.  There is also the criminal case.  Depending what they did exactly, they should be subject to a jail term and a record.


Thank you for answering. I was wrong that libertarians cannot answer that question.

I also want to ask if you think what they did in Minority Report (catching criminals before they act) was wrong. The whole point of the movie seemed to be that it was wrong, but sci-fi is always against punishment of any sort. They will never show you a scenario where punishment would be right.

We already, ideally, catch criminals before they act, but I would assume the relevant difference is between a school shooter with a room full of assault rifles and drawings of bullies bleeding to death, and someone who may not even have decided to act yet.

My second question is about a punishment that does not make up for the benefit the criminal gained by committing the crime. In other words, the criminal is still ahead because he committed the crime, even after being punished. Is it even possible for such a punishment to be just?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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